Non-scenically illustrated pips

nisaba

Bernice said:
This is one of the things I was ranting about because they arn't the original meanings of the Elements, these are the popular/modern 'elements' of the last century. ...
So ......... this is why I haunt these valuable history threads, sifting the gold-dust to recover richness from the past.
<interested> I'm always happy to learn. How do you feel the ancients assigned the elements between the suits?
 

Bernice

Nisaba: <interested> I'm always happy to learn. How do you feel the ancients assigned the elements between the suits?
It's not about how the elements were assigned to the suits. It's the nature/meaning of the elements that have undergone a fairly recent (100 years give or take...) 'evolutionary' change.

I have to confess I am probably the least qualified to expound on the math and historical 'lores' that have been drawn together into a brilliant and comprehensive System which has been put together by Melanchollic. I'm still in the process of grasping it all. But once all the factors are grasped (here's hoping...), individual preferences for card & associations and arrangement, can then be undertaken.

So here's Mels' thread which explains the foundations of what I call a truly Historical System for the Tarot deck. It also delinates every pip & court card meaning, the details being based upon the understandings and knowledge of those times and places from which the 'tarot' sprang.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=112327&page=1&pp=10

The concise readings with this system are quite amazing.
And although intuitive readers may not initially be interested, I think that if the depth of the meanings are explored, they outstrip the RW/ToL approach. (IMHO).


Bee :)
 

nisaba

Thank you. Will look at this tomorrow - it's getting late.
 

nisaba

<huge smile> Thank you! food for thought.
 

Bernice

.....and so, I've dickered around with these elements for suits - as Mel has done - and also tried various ways of assigning them to the pip cards. I've had partial success. I say 'partial' because I think my preconcieved notions of 'elements' has been ingrained (tainted) by the RW years.

But I love the inbuilt duration, movement, separating, joining, flowing etc. of these original elements!

Bee :)
 

nisaba

I still have to sit with it and think for a while longer. As you suggest, probably years of RW-poisoning <grin>.

Strangely, I'm more tempted to play with this using the Regardie/Wang GD deck than the Visconti-Sforza or the Marseilles. Interesting.

I'll be throwing an overnighter in a week or so - of I don't get enough time before then I'll certainly be sitting up for hours and hours with lots of decks then, so we'll see what transpires.
 

Bernice

I'd love it if you were to 'change' the GD meanings :laugh: But I think all those decks have pip images......

Keeping an eye on this thread, please do post any conclusions (or semi-conclusions) you reach.

Bee :)
 

nisaba

Bernice said:
I'd love it if you were to 'change' the GD meanings :laugh: But I think all those decks have pip images......

Keeping an eye on this thread, please do post any conclusions (or semi-conclusions) you reach.

Bee :)
Nup, just images of the symbols decorated up with flowers and curly stems, and in some of them the odd leaf.

At least <suddenly bewildered> Last time I looked at the deck it did. But Tarot cards, especially consciously magical ones, can do Odd Things if you don't keep a constant eye on them -
 

Bernice

Robert Wang GD deck: Went and found some scans of it, opps! :|
I'm surprised that the pips are pretty plain for a GD deck as you said (But I am wondering what on earth the Ace Wands might represent). Mels' nickname for this ace is "Obsession";
Elements: Suit = Earth/melancholic, Number = Fire/choleric.

Full deck here;

http://www.albideuter.de/html/golden_dawn.html

Do please update us on how you get on with the original elements and the pips in this deck.

Bee :)