The Chariot: belt and skirt

GlitterNova

Please excuse me if this has been discussed before. Can anyone explain the symbols on the charioteer's belt and skirt? The belt looks like astrological symbols. I can't tell what the symbols on the skirt are, though. They look geometric. Thanks!
 

Abrac

On the belt there's Leo, Cancer, ?, ?, and Moon.

I believe the symbols on the skirt are alchemical symbols and refer to the material elements. Adam McClean's Alchemy Website has a large database of alchemical images. I found most of them there, and a couple of the others I found in a book I have where they were listed as alchemical symbols.

Waite pretty much gives it away in the Pictorial Key:

"It is to be understood for this reason (a) that the question of the sphinx is concerned with a Mystery of Nature and not of the world of Grace, to which the charioteer could offer no answer; (b) that the planes of his conquest are manifest or external and not within himself; (c) that the liberation which he effects may leave himself in the bondage of the logical understanding; (d) that the tests of initiation through which he has passed in triumph are to be understood physically or rationally; and (e) that if he came to the pillars of that Temple between which the High Priestess is seated, he could not open the scroll called Tora, nor if she questioned him could he answer."

So it's fitting he would be decked out with symbols of the physical universe. He's also rising out of a solid cube of rock. :)

Chatioteer
 

Samweiss

The ones on the skirt are geomantic symbols, used in the making of magical talisman.
 

Abrac

I think you're right.

In the Appendix of this Golden Dawn document,

http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/imuhtuk/gdrolls/fly14.htm

many planetary sigils made from Geomantic figures are shown. The thing about Waite's sigils that's very unusual is the "T" on the tops and bottoms. In the geomantic talismans quite a few of them have that.

What's interesting though is how many of them do correspond to Alchemical symbols. Perhaps the old alchemists were using geomancy to create their sigils.

In The New Encyclopedia of the Occult, it says:

"Geomancy itself first appeared in written sources in Latin North Africa around the ninth century c.e., and passed from there to medieval Europe with the first Latin translations from Arabic in the twelfth century."

The alchemists certainly would have had access to gemomantic manuscripts.
 

ravenest

Like I said ... a Hodge-podge of Waite stuff.

regardless of what they are ... what use are they on the card to a reader?

An indication that the charioteer should know of such things ?

What is their import? It seems obscure when compared to , for example, when one applies the same question to other symbols (like bees for example, or Fleur-de-lys ).
 

TarotVerbatim

Charioteer

Here's my take on Chariot, and it makes it very useful to the reader:

Charioteers were the special ops and the strategists of war of their time: heroes. This information is found in histories of battles. The chariot was the ultimate weapon, like a tank would be later.
Chariot is a success, a skilled person, a project manager, the go-to man.
Sphinxes travel in only one direction, a turn. One of his turns only right; one turns only left. That is why their colors are reversed. He has hitched them so they get in one another's way, and have to head straight or where he directs them ... with his two magic wands there, no reins. He is a strategist. He has the plan.

Chariot is a war hero, so he can be a veteran who has seen combat. He is the strategist and the Man with the Plan, so he is a hands-on director of an enterprise.

The emphasis in Chariot is on getting the job done by any means. He can be ruthless. He is famous for using elements that are against his success to support it instead.

This profile of Chariot has worked well for me.
 

rwcarter

Sphinxes travel in only one direction, a turn. One of his turns only right; one turns only left. That is why their colors are reversed. He has hitched them so they get in one another's way, and have to head straight or where he directs them ...
In the Rider Waite, the sphinxes are hitched so that they move away from one another, not towards each other. The black one is oriented to the left of the card and the white one is oriented to the right of the card. They wouldn't get in each others way if they were to move and therefore the chariot wouldn't head straight.
 

ravenest

Here's my take on Chariot, and it makes it very useful to the reader:

He has hitched them so they get in one another's way, and have to head straight or where he directs them ... .

If they are hitched so they get in each others way, they cant move straight ahead nor be directed.

I dont see how this is useful to the reader at all ... :confused:

'The Black and the White are harnessed to his car.' I believe is about seeing both sides of the question, two ways to an approach ... but here I prefer the four Sphinxes pulling the Chariot ... it all makes much more sense, has deep esoteric learning experience and the theories and practice connected to this concept DOES and can help the reader or anyone studying the system immensely ,,,

... but that is more a topic for the Thoth forum.
 

ravenest

... not that they 'hitched' at all actually, they are just lying there, with the ends of their tails in their paws.

The RW Chariot looks immobile to me, a box or throne, big heavy impractical wheels, the Sphines can just run away ... etc .