AGM & Koenigsfurt-Urania Thoth decks

I am wondering whether the current English version of the large Thoth by Koenigsfurt-Urania is exactly the same as the second edition large Thoth by AGM? Both are 78 card decks.

http://www.koenigsfurt.com/shop/Englische-Artikel/Tarot/Aleister-Crowley-Thoth-Tarot-De-Luxe.html

Ideally I'd like to get a 1986 large AGM edition with the 2 alternate Magus cards but these are somewhat dearer in English. The German edition is still available of course.

I am assuming that there is a slight difference in colour between these and the current Green USG deck? Tarot Garden says 'barely distinguishable' difference in colour.

http://www.tarotgarden.com/library/decks/thothtable.php

Thanks in advance!

Is this the new "laser" Thoth? If it is barely distinguishable then what's the point?

By 'laser' Thoth, I assume you mean the version recently rephotographed with OTO funding? That deck is currently only available in German language and in 'standard' size. If so, then no, this is not that deck I am talking about.

http://www.koenigsfurt.com/shop/Tar...ister-Crowley-Thoth-Tarot-Standardformat.html

'Barely distinguishable' are Tarot Garden's words and just one opinion, and which may be exaggerated. I have read some people state they prefer the AGM version to the USG version, so I thought I'd check it out. I take it you are not a purist? ;-) I believe the AGM 2nd edition is out of print and after being absorbed by Konigsfurt Urania, the deck in the OP is a rerelease of that same deck - I'm trying to verify that fact.

I'm sorry if I sounded a bit ornery, that wasn't my intention, and I didn't mean that those were your words.

However, you're right about one thing, a purist I am not. I've been using the same USG standard, boring Thoth for about ten years. The new rephotographed deck would be just the thing to replace it, were it in English (it shouldn't matter, but I'm very shallow). However, I think that when I bought it, they were all made by AGM, with USG merely acting as the distributor, although I may be wrong. In any case, mine had an AGM sticker on it, but also said USG somewhere (I think. Box and LWB have long since passed away, so I can't check).

Rambling as I do, I have nothing really to add to this conversation.

No probs, yeah I figured you didn't mean I said it in hindsight heh...I know the earlier large green USG editions had a green tint and the later ones were much improved - but whether they were exactly the same as the AGM editions I don't know. I think all the large green USG decks are printed by AGM as they have the AGM copyright on the card backs. The 'lazor' deck is like the USG standard purple deck, but shrunk in height - it has fainter colours but the same dimensions as the actual original artwork, unlike the green USG deck which is stretched horizontally (everyone is fat) and the purple USG deck which is stretched vertically (everyone is thin).

Dwtw

It's probably too late to reply to this thread, but the large Green box Thoth from USG and the large Blue box Thoth from AGM are exactly the same deck, both printed in Belgium, with a copyright date of 1996. The differences that are "barely distinguishable" are due only to variations in print runs, but the same films were used to print all decks at that point.

The earliest large green boxes still had the older, 1978 'greenie' decks in them, until 2000, when the AGM printing moved from Switzerland back to Belgium. From that point on, all large boxes had the same decks in them.

The newer 2008 printing, in German and Russian only, does indeed have paler colors, and the correct dimensions, in both the standard and pocket sizes, both of which are slightly smaller than the purple and blue USG boxes.

Litluw
RLG

Thanks for the input RLG.

I looked up the ISBN10 on the Book Depository web site and came up with this ISBN13: 9783905021608 - which was easier to search the net with. However the publisher info is incorrect on this site and others, it shows David Westnedge Ltd, which is presumably a very old edition.

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Aleister-Crowley-Thoth-Tarot-Aleister-Crowley/9783905021608

In the end I ordered a copy to see what would arrive. It is indeed in English, with AGM blue packaging, in the large format. The box cover isn't exactly like that of the image associated with the ISBN. The card images like you say use the same scans of the paintings so are identical to the current Green Thoth. However, I noticed that the borders were differently coloured - the border background is a less cold grey colour and slightly warmer, darker colour and the lines on the border are equally off grey too. So it makes a small difference but overall I think it's more harmonious (less contrast between card and border). Maybe it's like you say, a batch issue.

Dwtw

Good catch. Actually I neglected to mention that the borders are slightly different; that's how you can tell which are 'blue box' AGM and which are 'green box' USG, without the box. The actual images are identical. I prefer the more harmonious look too.

Litlluw
RLG

Anyone have any insider information about the current state of the OTO's legal situation in regards to the new, re-photographed edition? More to the point, any chance of an English version coming out?

Yeah I figured it was worth a punt seeing as I wanted a spare copy of the large Thoth deck anyway...and to see what arrived.

I haven't heard anything regarding the legal situation. I did ask K-U about an English version. Ideally I'd like to see a large version in English :-D which would of course be slightly shorter than the large USG and AGM versions but the same width - but it may be a few years away. Given the rather cool reception the German version got, I don't think it helps the situation.