Hierophant - Snake and Dove?

Aeon418

LRichard said:
Unfortunately, it doesn't matter whether or not the pictures are changed.

I wasn't referring to changing pictures. Waite himself describes the card as the ruling power of external religion, exoteric orthodox doctrine, and the outer side of life which leads to the doctrine. Waite's "external" view of this card seems to have filtered down to the present day where popular interpretations seem to revolve around the exoteric, tradition, dogma, structure. It kind of misses half of what this card represents.

Richard

Aeon418 said:
I wasn't referring to changing pictures. Waite himself describes the card as the ruling power of external religion, exoteric orthodox doctrine, and the outer side of life which leads to the doctrine. Waite's "external" view of this card seems to have filtered down to the present day where popular interpretations seem to revolve around the exoteric, tradition, dogma, structure. It kind of misses half of what this card represents.

People actually read that stuff? Waite is supposed to be unreadable. To continue...... "He is the order and head of the recognized hierarchy, which is the reflection of another and greater hierarchic order; but it may so happen that the pontiff forgets the significance of this his symbolic state and acts as if he contained within his proper measures all that his sign signifies or his symbol seeks to shew forth."

ravenest

Classic example of Waite-a-bit ... he could have summed it by saying 'the danger is Hubris' in only 4 words.

Richard

ravenest said:
Classic example of Waite-a-bit ... he could have summed it by saying 'the danger is Hubris' in only 4 words.

ETA. Waite tends to be wordy at times. However, he has a thing about being as precise as possible. That's what makes him hard to read. Yes, the problem with pontiffs is hubris.

Zephyros

In this case I think Waite was speaking in code, but the problem is he did it too well.

LRichard said:
"He is the order and head of the recognized hierarchy, which is the reflection of another and greater hierarchic order"

The Hierophant as the head of the hierarchy is actually pretty apt; he crosses the Abyss, a messenger of the basic laws. In a way he is the Mosaic Law, given around the start of Taurus. He's the Torah while it was still only an idea in God's mind. Waite's talking about him being a reflection of the supernal triangle.

LRichard said:
..."but it may so happen that the pontiff forgets the significance of this his symbolic state and acts as if he contained within his proper measures all that his sign signifies or his symbol seeks to shew forth."

Here I think he is telling of a reality beyond what Chesed can bestow, beyond the seeming superficiality of the Hierophant's message, since it is a message and not the substance. Today he would perhaps sum himself up with "don't be a dick."

I believe Waite understood the significance of what he was saying, but he erred in cloaking it so that much of the essence was lost. I don't think he meant to mislead people, although it is a shame he left the story half-untold.

ravenest

LRichard said:
ETA. Waite tends to be wordy at times. However, he has a thing about being as precise as possible. That's what makes him hard to read. Yes, the problem with pontiffs is hubris.

Hang on! I thought I was being as precise as possible? :laugh:

ravenest

closrapexa said:
In this case I think Waite was speaking in code, but the problem is he did it too well.

The Hierophant as the head of the hierarchy is actually pretty apt; he crosses the Abyss, a messenger of the basic laws. In a way he is the Mosaic Law, given around the start of Taurus. He's the Torah while it was still only an idea in God's mind. Waite's talking about him being a reflection of the supernal triangle.

Here I think he is telling of a reality beyond what Chesed can bestow, beyond the seeming superficiality of the Hierophant's message, since it is a message and not the substance. Today he would perhaps sum himself up with "don't be a dick."

I believe Waite understood the significance of what he was saying, but he erred in cloaking it so that much of the essence was lost. I don't think he meant to mislead people, although it is a shame he left the story half-untold.

But you explained the extended meaning better then he did :laugh:

Maybe you should put a book out?
'What Waite Meant.' ?
'Waite-a-bit Less'. ?
'Extrapolations Upon Obsure Symbolic Metaphors of Post-Victorian Occultists.'

(Not having a go at you C ... just having fun with Waite's 'demenour'.)

Richard

If there ever is a commentary on PKT, closrapexa should definitely do it! He seems to know what Waite was trying to say, and explains it much better.

Zephyros

Just today I was studying the sign of Apophis, and I noticed an interesting correlation between this card and the Aeon. Here is the sign of the murderer of the Dying God, perhaps symbolizing the end of that age of the world. The spirituality is still solar, but is now undying, and the "dogma" he brings is perhaps that of the new Aeon. In the Aeon, Horus's attitude seems similar, only his hand is empty. Haven't gotten to that one yet, but I seem to remember Harris saying in the gallery notes that his hand is empty because the old world has been destroyed but a new one has not yet been built.

Horus the Son=Vau=Hierophant

Also, Horus was the divine falcon, but was also linked to the constellation of Taurus.

ravenest

closrapexa said:
Also, Horus was the divine falcon, but was also linked to the constellation of Taurus.

I'm curious about that. Is that link something you think yourself? Does it come from a hybrid system of Ancient Egyptian ideas and 'modern' astology (like Rosemary Clark or someone)? Is it positons on the 'Dendra Zodiac' ?

Hierophant - Snake and Dove?

Aeon418

Richard

ravenest

Richard

Zephyros

ravenest

ravenest

Richard

Zephyros

ravenest