Convince me or discourage me....

fools_fool said:

To understand it you have to devote a lot of time and study to this one deck,

fools_fool

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I have heard this kind of thing said before, and although I am sure the people who say it are just saying what they think or feel, I don't agree.

I never devoted a lot of time to studying this deck. Or studying Crowley.

I just used it. I looked up what I needed to know, in the LWB, or in the Book of Thoth, and got on with it.

With Crowley himself, I just read what I enjoyed reading. I just learned what I learned as I went along.

Ok, yes, so I have been learning for 20 years, but I never felt that I worked hard at it, or that it was work at all.
I enjoyed using the deck and I still do.

My problem is that a lot of people talk about the Thoth like it was some terrifying, complex edifice that needs years of study before you can read with it.
Some people even seem to feel that it is somehow evil or tainted by Crowleys reputation.

Well, what I want to say is that it is neither of these things.
It's just a deck of cards. 78 bits of art.
Very pretty from my perspective, though not everyones cup of tea.
It's not evil, it's just a thing, it's no more or less than what you yoursel make it be.
And it's easy to read. Just pick it up and use it, like any other deck.
You can buy it today and use it today.
The images are essentially fairly standard. Most of the majors correspond well to the RWS, (as they should). The minors have the key words to help you.

Just use it and learn as you go along.

Really, if you like the way the deck looks it will be easy.
If you don't like the way it looks, then don't bother with it. You shouldn't have to look at pictures you don't like.

I agree with Lillie; especially if one takes an intuitive approach (look at the images and keywords approach) to the Thoth, and even if one doesn't. You can essentially use the Thoth right of the box. Obviously, though, if you read Crowley's Book of Thoth and Harris's exhibit notes and a good commentary such as DuQuette's, you can get a better idea of what was intended by the card images.

Ironically, in the case of the Rider-Waite, despite images on the pips, the Rider-Waite is a tough deck to get a full handle on, past the intuitive "look at the imagery" approach, because we don't have a detailed commentary on the deck from him or Pixie. We can take a Golden Dawn approach to the Rider-Waite (like author David Hulse), ; but it's not clear how much Waite and Smith intended to differ from GD. (For Rider-Waite, can also look at Etteilla meanings and Agrippa's meanings of the decanates per Mathers.)

Hi Rusty.

Nice to see you back here again!

I think that if someone uses the Thoth 'right out of the box', the reading and the books and all that will come naturally, if they 'get into the deck'.
It happened like that for me. I liked the deck and found myself wanting to know more about it.

I certainly think the attitude that the Thoth needs years of study before it can be used properly, to be incorrect, and very off putting for someone who is thinking of getting the deck.

Though one thing I found was that sometimes, the more I knew about all the Kaballah and magickal theory, the more I would over intellectualise readings, and the les good they would be.
I have always found I got the best results if I took my brain out of gear and coasted along, just saying whatever came into my head!
And this method works as well with the Thoth as with any other deck.

So, I have to keep my brain compartmentalised.
One bit for learning stuff and the other bit totally empty!

I can't really talk about reading the RWS, as I don't. I only got one very recently.
But from the little I can tell, the pics on the minors are quite confining in a way that the Thoth minors are not.

It took me a while to get around to getting the Thoth and then I did so because I felt it was a hole in my collection. When I did acquire it I picked up the large "green" version and I have to say it didn't strike me as particularly exciting, due to the muted colours. But shortly after that I also acquired a normal-sized one in the blue box and it made me think again. Finally, I found the large "blue" version and the difference was staggering - I fell in love with it.

That said, I haven't worked with it because it is the one deck I do truly want to study (though I agree with Lillie that you don't have to - and I don't normally) and it's just one of those things I have never got round to.

For me, the on-line images of this deck just don't do it justice: I feel the physical copy has more impact.

Is there an actual difference in the artwork on the different color editions?
A different shade on the card images or the framing?

Since I'm entertaining the thought of some day getting a copy (quite possibly to snip it ) it would be interesting to know if I should be going for a certain version or can get just any version that I can most easily find.

Eco74 said:

Is there an actual difference in the artwork on the different color editions?
A different shade on the card images or the framing?

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Eco,

As far as I am aware, it's just the difference in the colour tones. Here's a comparison someone usefully posted a while ago (search "icky green" for threads on this subject):-

http://www.tarotpassages.com/thoth1.jpg

I like my colours clear and bright.

Edited to add: Here's one such thread, started by Yaboot, in the days when I was LouiQ:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=16908&highlight=icky+green

Color tone difference indeed...

It's like choosing between foreground and background on the example on tarotpassages.. The green has a more vivid front display while the blue has a sharper background but more muted colors in the front.
This will take a bit of thinking since it's a considerable difference.

Thankyou Scorpion!

Eco74 said:

Color tone difference indeed...

This will take a bit of thinking since it's a considerable difference.

Thankyou Scorpion!

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You're welcome, Eco!

Interesting how we all view these things differently - for me, it was more a question of the "green" deck being, well, dead is the only way I can describe it, while the "blue" one is just so vibrant and alive to me. I would never have chosen the green deck if I'd known about that - but it was all I could find at the time.

Edited to add: I was surprised to see the Thoth on the LoS website recently: the blue version by the look of it (granted I hadn't been on for a while) - I thought US Games had the monopoly on it.

As far as I am aware, back in the early 80's, when I bought my first Thoth, the 'green one' was all you could get.
It's all I ever saw.

Many years later the blue Muller version came out and I was shocked to see it.
It looked so different.
It didn't look right.

And that was the first time I realised mine was green.

I am one person who likes the green one.
It's what I am used too.

And I don't like the backs on the newer ones.

So, it's whatever you like, really.
But I don't think the greenies are sold anymore.
Just the new ones with the crap backs. (so they can fit the copyright on!)
And that seems to hold true whatever box you buy them in!

Scorpion said:

Interesting how we all view these things differently - for me, it was more a question of the "green" deck being, well, dead is the only way I can describe it, while the "blue" one is just so vibrant and alive to me. I would never have chosen the green deck if I'd known about that - but it was all I could find at the time.

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I feel the exact same way! I bought the "icky green" Thoth years ago, without realizing it, and I could never connect with those cards....the colors are completely washed out, and they seem to have a slight green tinge from the borders. I now own the standard size (with the three Magus cards, lavendar box) and a large non-green with trimmed borders/keywords. The trimmed deck is absolutely AMAZING....the images seem to jump out at you, and I am glad to be rid of those (often negative) keywords.

Luna