Important Tips to Newbies

gregory

berrieh said:
The problem with this theory is that elements are not a “basic” because there is much complexity and disagreement on any elemental “theory” and presenting it to a newbie as a basic is a fallacy, in my opinion.

<snip>

It’s not ‘forgetting the basics’ so much as it is… debating what the basics are.
Exactly. That also applies to generic meanings - there is much debate about what THOSE are, too - and if you look at elements - what about decks that use different elements for the suits ???
 

Venus Moon

Kircher Tree said:
Wow. Tough crowd here tonight. These people must eat nails for breakfast.
But I wonder why they are in a noob thread if they don't want to hear any suggestions. No one who "seems to get OK results" and would ever consider changing anything.

I don't ever recall that I indicated the "the other 3591/2 degrees" should be ignored. And I certainly don't remember ever saying or implying that one method should work for everyone.

Anyway, I'm out of here. Too nasty. Too defensive here. Next, I think I will go to the Toth forum and say something derogatory about Uncle Al.

I haven't seen the posts here as tough or nasty at all! I've learned quite a bit actually. Posters are just mentioning how finding your own way, and there are 1,000s of ways is a journey, that there is no right way. No absolute way that works magically for everyone, everytime. The original poster was saying this and others just stepped in with wise words about it.

I've gotten a lot from those sage posts, thank you :)
 

Sulis

Kercher Tree said:
But I wonder why they are in a noob thread if they don't want to hear any suggestions. No one who "seems to get OK results" and would ever consider changing anything.
Because those who are wise will recognise that they are always learning and so are always 'newbies'.
Ranzel himself with all his 'wisdom for newbies' has said himself that he's only been using cards for around a year, that's not very long at all. There are many people here who have been reading for a lifetime and still feel like they are always learning.

I think the thing that has offended people here is the way the information has been presented as something that 'all newbies should know as basics'..
Many of us have been reading for years and have never viewed the elements as basics.
There is even debate about which element should be used for each suit and it differs from deck to deck so presenting information as something which all newbies should know is bound to upset some people...

Me, I take notice of the elements but I find the whole concept of elemental dignities to be very confusing and I can't ever see me bothering to include them in my readings... And guess what? My readings have been absolutely fine for years without them.
Now numerology - I'm into that but I wouldn't dream of telling folks that the only way to get good readings is to use numerology as I know that even though it works for me, it won't work for everyone.
 

Bernice

With patience and persistance I will rephrase my earlier post.

The elemental associations in the tarot appear to have been first introduced by Levi, Wirth, the G.D., Waite, etc. They were for magical workings - NOT divination.

So, you'll all free to assign anything & everything to whatever card you like. Elemental associations arn't set in stone - or even necessary!

Bee
 

gregory

Kircher Tree said:
I have noticed that people who are truly knowledgeable about a subject are considerate and patent with people who know less. They will not "flame" anyone for making a suggestion, even if they have heard it before. On the other hand, those who are not knowledgeable, often feel insecure and defensive.

What I see here is that the person who started this thread contributed a cogent and well presented tip, that many new or not so new tarot readers might find interesting or beneficial.

So that is the score: One useful tip from one side.
From the other side?

The other side has contributed nothing but flame. These guys claim that they are so good that they don't want to hear about elementals. They are just abusing the forum with spam and nonsense. I wish they would just "get a room" if you know what I mean. (And I think you do.)

>>"I seem to get OK results. (anyone who has had a reading from me that was c**p, feel free to say so now !)<<

This is of course, the classic insecure and defensive statement. My challenge to this person is this:

Since you are a superior tarot reader, please come up with a genuine tip. Contribute something to this forum that is half as useful as cogent and well written and relevant as the tip that started this thread.

Just repeating over and over "it isn't THE ONLY WAY" "it isn't THE ONLY WAY" "it isn't THE ONLY WAY" won't cut it. Nobody is saying anything is "THE ONLY WAY" except you.

Comeon buddy. Don't let us down. You claim to be good. Show us that you can write a good tarot reading tip.
Those who say that only say that it isn't the only because it was stated that it was.

And I certainly have said that and also that everyone should indeed go their own route. It IS important in a noob thread for genuine noobs not to think that any one way IS the only way. I have said what way works for me, and that it was only for me. I have offered a link to it - one person has followed that up. I know it isn't for everyone. I don't claim to be a teacher, so I gave the link to the thread where I was taught. I don't feel in any way qualified to give a great tip - but I will anyway:

LOOK AT WHAT YOU SEE IN THE CARD. Really - LOOK at the card. Look at every last thing in there. Which the artist put there for a reason.

That's it. You might be surprised - and if you aren't - I never said it would work for everyone.

I don't claim to be a great reader either. "My way" gets results FOR ME. I have never claimed to feel secure. One reason I will never read professionally. I am a permanent student. I offered people the chance to say a reading was crap because it's just ASKING for trouble to say I do OK; someone for whom I got dud results is sure to point it out - I have never said all my readings were spot on, either.

I have also pointed out a serious problem with the method suggested in the first post (decks with a different alignment of elements.)

But thanks for "calling me" a superior tarot reader. It isn't true, but it looks nice :D
 

Ange

What I see here is that the person who started this thread contributed a cogent and well presented tip, that many new or not so new tarot readers might find interesting or beneficial.
--------------------

Lets stop and consider for one moment the first post....the 'tip'.....and just a tip it was.....a suggestion......a 'try it and see' sort of thing......

But now move past that post to what it might lead to.....and I will use me as an example.

I read that....thought it was good.....thought it explained the elements well......thought about more tips and hints, and went off to explore......found a lessons page and discovered the numbered cards in the majors tie in with the numbered cards in the minors....so within one day there are two mysteries solved....the elements and the majors and minors fitting in with each other

If it hadn't have been for that post, I doubt very much that I would have looked for more.

And all it takes is one post by someone who has found something that works for them, to post it, and inspire others to find out more.

And you see the posts and replies that are now coming in......all the different ways of seeing the cards....posted by experienced people, that in it's self is giving the newbies something to think about.

I suppose what I'm trying to say here is that you experienced readers take what you do for granted....not having to think about what comes next.,....you know it off by heart....but it only takes one bit of what you do to comeout on the forum to make the rest of us go searching for more answers.

The post, to some, may be wrong, to others it may be ok...but to me it has opened up a whole new avenue to explore.... :)

Ang x
 

Bernice

Greggers, where's the link?

Always happy to look at different approaches... :)

Bee
 

balenciaga

Glorp

Sharing what we know and have learned it what it is all about:)
Now can someone explain for the newbies what glorp is? I think it is that indescribable way the cards come together and can be read - but it is different for each person. I am not articulate enough to explain further - can someone jump in?
 

Kircher Tree

I'm still waiting for a well written tip that is half as good as the first one.

One comment about "serious problem... (decks with a different alignment of elements.)" It doesn't matter which element matches with what suit. It is whatever works for you. If you think cup represent emotion/water fine. If you think they are spirit/fire, that is also fine. There is no "ONLY WAY". So this this a non-problem. Honestly it is not that difficult.

An earlier poster claimed that this was so complicated that it would discourage noobs and maybe cause them to give up tarot. DUH? There are only 4 Suites/elements. How difficult can that be? Most people notice there are 4 suites the first time they look at the cards.

It is just a suggestion or addition to the way people normally read cards. NOBODY IS SAYING THIS IS THE ONLY WAY.
 

Bernice

balenciaga, no idea what glorp is. And I understand exactly what you mean about card combinations. But the 'divination' is in the reader - YOU. So you could just as well use melon pips... :)

Bee