Ravenswing
Here we'll go into the structure of the symbolon deck-- which is much different from other decks i've seen. this is a re-cap and continuation of the OVERVIEW thread.
symbolon--STRUCTURE
Ravenswing
basics-- a quick look
***PLEASE re-member-- the symbolon cards represent internal persona, not external events***
the symbolon deck consists of two types of cards.
the first is a set of twelve, called ARCHETYPES. We can consider them as representative of the twelve astrological signs (sort of)
the second is a set of sixty-six cards, which i will call MINORS, represent the blend of TWO ARCHETYPES. so, each card will have characteristics of TWO astrological signs (sort of)
the basic underlying similarity between tarot and symbolon is that they both are a deck of seventy-eight cards.
enough for now
LVX
steve
&&& exercise-- separate the two types of cards. can you see any design differences between the two?
***PLEASE re-member-- the symbolon cards represent internal persona, not external events***
the symbolon deck consists of two types of cards.
the first is a set of twelve, called ARCHETYPES. We can consider them as representative of the twelve astrological signs (sort of)
the second is a set of sixty-six cards, which i will call MINORS, represent the blend of TWO ARCHETYPES. so, each card will have characteristics of TWO astrological signs (sort of)
the basic underlying similarity between tarot and symbolon is that they both are a deck of seventy-eight cards.
enough for now
LVX
steve
&&& exercise-- separate the two types of cards. can you see any design differences between the two?
Ravenswing
combination clues
&&& the design difference between the two groups: the ARCHETYPES have two astrological glyphs (an astrological sign and its associated planet) in either top left and bottom right OR top right and bottom left. The MINORS have one glyph in each corner &&&
####
I've said that each minor is a composite of two archetypes. How can you tell what two archetypes make up a minor?
Each of the minors have four astrological glyphs on it. The top two are signs, the bottom two are the planets associated with the sign. The two archetypes which represent the two signs are those which make up the minor.
for example, let's take a look at the card entitled 'master and disciple'.
top left-- gemini
top right-- sagittarius
The Mediator represents gemini, The Preacher represents sagittarius, so 'master and disciple' is a combination of these two archetypes.
LVX
steve
&&& pick MINORS at random and figure out which ARCHETYPES make up the card. with practice, you should be able to look at the MINOR and have the two ARCHETYPES come to mind immediately &&&
&&& the design difference between the two groups: the ARCHETYPES have two astrological glyphs (an astrological sign and its associated planet) in either top left and bottom right OR top right and bottom left. The MINORS have one glyph in each corner &&&
####
I've said that each minor is a composite of two archetypes. How can you tell what two archetypes make up a minor?
Each of the minors have four astrological glyphs on it. The top two are signs, the bottom two are the planets associated with the sign. The two archetypes which represent the two signs are those which make up the minor.
for example, let's take a look at the card entitled 'master and disciple'.
top left-- gemini
top right-- sagittarius
The Mediator represents gemini, The Preacher represents sagittarius, so 'master and disciple' is a combination of these two archetypes.
LVX
steve
&&& pick MINORS at random and figure out which ARCHETYPES make up the card. with practice, you should be able to look at the MINOR and have the two ARCHETYPES come to mind immediately &&&
Ravenswing
a little sidetracking...
By now you should be well on your way to seeing a MINOR as a blend of two ARCHETYPES. For the moment, let's put the MINORS aside and bring out the twelve ARCHETYPES.
Put them in astrological order starting with The Warrior. Now, go through them one by one, looking at the placement of each cards sign. A pattern should jump out at you-- an odd numbered ARCHETYPE has its sign on the top right, an even numbered ARCHETYPE has its sign on the top left. What does this mean to you?
!!!! A NOTE HERE about meaning-- meaning is never inherent; it is an agreement. At the very least you agree with yourself on a thing's meaning. !!!!
So let's make an agreement here. We are going to agree that we will call the odd numbered cards male, and the even numbered cards female.
Now, for a while, think about what this agreement means to you.
LVX
steve
By now you should be well on your way to seeing a MINOR as a blend of two ARCHETYPES. For the moment, let's put the MINORS aside and bring out the twelve ARCHETYPES.
Put them in astrological order starting with The Warrior. Now, go through them one by one, looking at the placement of each cards sign. A pattern should jump out at you-- an odd numbered ARCHETYPE has its sign on the top right, an even numbered ARCHETYPE has its sign on the top left. What does this mean to you?
!!!! A NOTE HERE about meaning-- meaning is never inherent; it is an agreement. At the very least you agree with yourself on a thing's meaning. !!!!
So let's make an agreement here. We are going to agree that we will call the odd numbered cards male, and the even numbered cards female.
Now, for a while, think about what this agreement means to you.
LVX
steve
truthsayer
okay, i've pulled the first 12 astrological signs-the pure archetypes. i've highlighted in the interpretation of the cards and jotted notes important things about the card sequence. i'm trying to see patterns here.
if a pure archetype is one planet and one sun sign, then 2 planets and 2 sun signs is a blend of an archetype. this makes sense until i try to see this astrologically. you have the 12 houses that a sun sign represents each house. each sun sign has a ruler planet. in a birthchart, you have 10 planets in its simplest equation. mars and venus are counted twice to give each sun sign are ruling planet. in it's purest form aries=mars=first house=personality(ascendant or rising sign), taurus=venus=second house=finances, gemini=mercury=communication.etc. but in an actual birth chart the planets and signs are in different places in the chart. the birth chart is a flat picture of what the heavens looked like divided into 12 slices of pie for the moment of a person's birth.
let me give my chart as an example.
sun in pisces in the 11th house. venus in pisces conjunct sun in pisces. planetary ruler of pisces is neptune.
if i break this down into major and minor cards i get this:
sun in pisces=the angel=neptune
venus is planetary ruler of both taurus and libra. is this a blend of 2 minor archetypes-the gilded cage?
do i take these 3 cards of make a triad interpretation. the sun would be on top. venus on each corner. do i take this further in interpretation that examining the angel and the gilded cage? or do i break each venus corner into a separate card-the lover=taurus and the partner=libra or would the gilded cage be the card that reps the 2 bottom corners of the triangle.. these 3 pure personae create a 4th possibility/option and makes this a square=the gilded cage. do i add the major personae thusly to create the minor personae of the gilded cage?
another factor-this planets are located in the 11th house in aquarius. aquarius is ruled by the planet of unexpected change-uranus. do i add venus/neptune/uranus for other minor personae?
if a pure archetype is one planet and one sun sign, then 2 planets and 2 sun signs is a blend of an archetype. this makes sense until i try to see this astrologically. you have the 12 houses that a sun sign represents each house. each sun sign has a ruler planet. in a birthchart, you have 10 planets in its simplest equation. mars and venus are counted twice to give each sun sign are ruling planet. in it's purest form aries=mars=first house=personality(ascendant or rising sign), taurus=venus=second house=finances, gemini=mercury=communication.etc. but in an actual birth chart the planets and signs are in different places in the chart. the birth chart is a flat picture of what the heavens looked like divided into 12 slices of pie for the moment of a person's birth.
let me give my chart as an example.
sun in pisces in the 11th house. venus in pisces conjunct sun in pisces. planetary ruler of pisces is neptune.
if i break this down into major and minor cards i get this:
sun in pisces=the angel=neptune
venus is planetary ruler of both taurus and libra. is this a blend of 2 minor archetypes-the gilded cage?
do i take these 3 cards of make a triad interpretation. the sun would be on top. venus on each corner. do i take this further in interpretation that examining the angel and the gilded cage? or do i break each venus corner into a separate card-the lover=taurus and the partner=libra or would the gilded cage be the card that reps the 2 bottom corners of the triangle.. these 3 pure personae create a 4th possibility/option and makes this a square=the gilded cage. do i add the major personae thusly to create the minor personae of the gilded cage?
another factor-this planets are located in the 11th house in aquarius. aquarius is ruled by the planet of unexpected change-uranus. do i add venus/neptune/uranus for other minor personae?
truthsayer
truthsayer said:
venus/neptune=the garden of spirits. just coincidentally, the planetary ruler of my ascendant taurus happens to be venus. i also have venus in pisces. i think this is a very interesting coincidence that the cards happen to fall like this in my birth chart.
then aquarius/pisces and uranus/neptune=the question of the holy grail.
what just happens to be my favorite myth? the legend of the holy grail. i've written lots on what the holy grail of my life is or could be. coincidence? if so, some mighty darn strange ones.
i can take this scenario w/o even getting into the rest of my birthchart and have plenty of study fodder for days.
if you follow where i've gone w/ this, do you think i'm catchin on to what the purpose of the symbolon is? this is an incredibly intense complex system. doing symbolon gives my brain a real work-out. i do tarot when i'm relaxing. the words just kind of come to me, i've been doing tarot so many years.
Ravenswing
deeper and deeper
truth--
i am nowhere as well versed in astrology as you-- the shoe's on the other foot now
LOL!!
there is very little in the way of 'rules' to this deck. i just stumble carefully along since my astroknowledge is limited.
you have found meaning in the cards. that is the whole purpose of this system-- to re-member yourSelf. this deck seems to be highly personal-- it speaks to each of us personally, and reveals yourSelf to yourself.
you're doin good kid
LVX where ever you find it
steve
truth--
i am nowhere as well versed in astrology as you-- the shoe's on the other foot now
LOL!!there is very little in the way of 'rules' to this deck. i just stumble carefully along since my astroknowledge is limited.
you have found meaning in the cards. that is the whole purpose of this system-- to re-member yourSelf. this deck seems to be highly personal-- it speaks to each of us personally, and reveals yourSelf to yourself.
you're doin good kid
LVX where ever you find it
steve
Ravenswing
truthsayer said:
OH WOW!! it's always exciting to me to find another angle to the jewel of reality. my heart-felt thanks for your sharing. PLEASE, PLEASE continue as you are. i think you have found your path.
here's our difference (and it's such a simple one).
you got the sun in pisces as the angel. you've taken the archetypes to represent sun signs.
to me, the sun is represented by the Ego
The Ego represents the sign (not sun sign) Leo, the planet the Sun, and the 5th house.
The Angel represents the sign (not the sun sign) Pisces, the planet Neptune and the 12th house.
So, as I understand it, the sun in Pisces is a combination of the Ego (the sun) and the Angel (the sign Pisces). this is the small card "retreat"
i think i like your path better in this case. i guess that's why it's your path.
Keep up with it Truth. and keep posting. swapping realities is always a trip!!
LVX
steve
truthsayer
yes, i see exactly what you are saying about the ego-sun-leo-5th house. the angel pisces-neptune-12th house. i had not seen the option of the retreat but i was trying to keep it simple. i knew if i didn't limit myself somewhere i'd be all of the chart and get confused. i am adding the retreat to the current set-up. i think it works in what i'm doing there.
here's the rub about leo in the 5th house and why i didn't add it at this point. i have uranus in the 5th house of leo. uranus is the ruler of aquarius which rules the 11th house in my chart. so the ruler of the sun in pisces is in my 5th house. i have 3 planets in aquarius in the 10th house-saturn, mars, and mercury. jupiter is in aquarius in the 11th. all these planets in aquarius are in opposition of the planetary ruler uranus which is in the 5th house. the planetary ruler of leo(the sun)of the 5th house is in the 11th house. now i could break this down into minor cards but i'd rather wait until i work thru the first part of the equation. i need to look at a lot of different planetary equations to get this one worked out. it's probably the most complex configuration in my chart. i'll probably end up drawing some kind of diagram so i can follow my own train of thought.
i guess you can see why i was confused in the beginning. i know enough about astrology to be my own worst enemy but too much not to use it. i think once i get down my method it'll be easier for me to understand what you and the others are doing.
here's the rub about leo in the 5th house and why i didn't add it at this point. i have uranus in the 5th house of leo. uranus is the ruler of aquarius which rules the 11th house in my chart. so the ruler of the sun in pisces is in my 5th house. i have 3 planets in aquarius in the 10th house-saturn, mars, and mercury. jupiter is in aquarius in the 11th. all these planets in aquarius are in opposition of the planetary ruler uranus which is in the 5th house. the planetary ruler of leo(the sun)of the 5th house is in the 11th house. now i could break this down into minor cards but i'd rather wait until i work thru the first part of the equation. i need to look at a lot of different planetary equations to get this one worked out. it's probably the most complex configuration in my chart. i'll probably end up drawing some kind of diagram so i can follow my own train of thought.
i guess you can see why i was confused in the beginning. i know enough about astrology to be my own worst enemy but too much not to use it. i think once i get down my method it'll be easier for me to understand what you and the others are doing.
truthsayer
now that i am seeing a visual image of my birthchart, i think even more that there is a pattern in the universe. i can't explain otherwise how everything links together so seamlessly in my chart. i'm very visual so seeing the archetypes of my inner personae in actual pictures is very helpful. definitely no way to escape your shadow side here.
i have been working w/ other mythological astrological systems-liz green's and linda goodman but symbolon's is the best. the reason is how the creators were able to develop the system of combined symbols. the other systems don't do this and this makes them fall short of the symbolon in raw symbolic power.
i have been working w/ other mythological astrological systems-liz green's and linda goodman but symbolon's is the best. the reason is how the creators were able to develop the system of combined symbols. the other systems don't do this and this makes them fall short of the symbolon in raw symbolic power.
