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Upside-down M solved [maybe]

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Abrac- I guess I'm not making myself clear. Can you give me specific references where you think the W's look like upside-down M's please.

These cases show Pamela's W's are not upside-down M's:

Look closely at the W in the titles WANDS & SWORDS or WORLD, TOWER and WHEEL OF FORTUNE. They are the same W, looks nothing like the M's she uses for EMPRESS, MAGICIAN or HERMIT, or MOON.

I will give you though that the M in HANGED MAN she makes one slight adjustment to the staff on the left, it's not parallel to the one on the right, it's slight diagonal.

I retrieved this re: vv=w from oxford dictionary, it's the reason why we say phonetically 'double U' when referring to W.

"English uses the Latin alphabet of the Romans. However, this had no letter suitable for representing the speech sound /w/ which was used in Old English, though phonetically the sound represented by /v/ was quite close. In the 7th century scribes wrote uu for /w/; later they used the runic symbol known as wynn. European scribes had continued to write uu, and this usage returned to England with the Norman Conquest in 1066. Early printers sometimes used vv for lack of a w in their type. The name double-u recalls the former identity of u and v, which you can also see in a number of words with a related origin, for example flour/flower, guard/ward, or suede/Swede."
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onesun, this diagram should make things clearer.

The "W" on the Ace of Cups is only an illusion. It's meant to look like a W, but when you look more closely there's a deeper mystery.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac View Post
LRichard, why do you think it's a double U (V)?
W is double-u. It evolved from UU and VV. (U and V originally had the same sound.)
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There is no need to look far afield into etymology in order to guess what the letter M refers to. Waite got a lot of his ideas from other Tarot decks, such as Sola Busca, Etteilla, and GD. The GD Ace of Cups is the only minor in that deck which contains a letter of the alphabet. According to Book T, it is the "great letter of the Supernal Mother." Occam's Razor would imply that there is no need to look beyond this for the basic meaning of the M in the Waite card. While Mary (either Jesus' mother or even Mary of Magdala) is indeed a mythological representation of Binah, the Supernal Mother, it doesn't seem characteristic of the Waite deck to make such explicit reference to a Biblical character, but it is certainly possible.
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LRichard, let's suppose M does represent the Supernal Mother in whatever form one wishes to see her. On what do you base this idea other than Book-T? In The Hidden Church, or any other of Waite's writings, does he associate Binah, Supernal Mother, the Virgin, or Mary with the Eucharist or the Grail? I'm willing to entertain the idea but it has to be based on something besides one reference in Book-T and the letter He on the GD card. Waite's philosophy is so much deeper and broader than that which he acquired in the GD, I'd need something in addition to Book-T.
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The letter on the GD Ace of Cups is Heh, not Mem. It is the second letter of the Tetragrammaton יהוה. The only other letter in a GD card image is the Shin in Judgement, which is the central letter in the Pentgrammaton יהשוה.

Mem means water (H2O), which could be extended to include elemental Water. It is the alphabetical number of the Hanged Man in the GD Trump attributions, but it does not appear in the card image.

The Holy Grail as the Supernal Maternal principle is such a common notion that it is usually taken for granted. (It is even exploited in The Da Vinci Code.) I'll look around in the literature, but I am amazed that this should be necessary.
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Late in coming to this discussion but... I'm a bit confused. There seems to be no indication the letter would be a W, although why it would be an M I don't know. Plus, it doesn't really seem to matter where the origins of either letter is, as Waite was clearly not a linguist and didn't put that letter there in order to inspire musings on the history of tongues.

I am also confused about the request from LRichard to "prove" the significance of the letter Heh... not only is it, as he said, common knowledge, and is mentioned in every kabbalistic essay and work, but it also wouldn't give us anything. LRichard's conclusions about the M seem on point, correct and most importantly, the least fanciful and most practical. It must not be supposed that GD doctrine was shallow or trite until Waite found his "deeper and broader" knowledge. There was plenty depth in the GD, he just didn't agree with it.

As for why the Grail represents the feminine? Well, among other things, the Grail represents the final initiation, blending of opposites, the stage where the knight "gets the girl." And getting the girl is exactly right, as is seen in many myths throughout history. Indeed, when Percivale achieved the Quest of the Holy Grail, one of his tasks was to thrust the Spear of Longinous, that had dealt the Dolorous Stroke, into the Grail, the symbolism of which should be obvious. So obvious, that it is what the entire initiatory system is based on. Crowley's story of the Courts deals with the male achieving unity with the female; the HGA "knowing" its charge, thus paving the way for the Princess to be seated in the throne of her mother and awakening the Father... etc. etc. etc.
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Abrac 

LRichard, I noticed my mistake shortly after I posted and changed it to He.

The reason I feel it's necessary (for me at least) is because we're not talking about "common notions" of the Grail legend but Waite's. I'm not saying it's necessary for you to dig and find something, I just thought if you knew of something it would be interesting to see it. You don't have to prove anything to me, I'm just saying for myself it'll take more than just Book-T or general ideas about the Grail, but something from Waite himself.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac View Post
onesun, this diagram should make things clearer.

The "W" on the Ace of Cups is only an illusion. It's meant to look like a W, but when you look more closely there's a deeper mystery.
Ok I see what you're getting at. I WAS THE ONE trying to get specific about it. LOL.

So, when one first looks at the card upright they may think they see a W (I myself didn't do that prob because my training in typography). So you say, the "W" is alluding to something deeper, a double meaning if you will. One as M and one as W… or maybe even a combination of both.

Since we give everything we perceive (all the symbols of the world) all the meaning it has for us (conclusions from judgement/belief), I say if that is of benefit to you to characterize it as a W -and- an M my blessings go with and I do appreciate your intent to dive deeper and look at things from multi-perspectives.
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The W may actually mean nothing, I mean I think it's a possibility. Most people I know think it's a W until you point out to them it's an M. Maybe that was the intent, a misdirection tactic to distract from the real thing.
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