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Upside-down M solved [maybe]

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Abrac  Abrac is offline
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No doubt the Cup is feminine, but while the M is on the Cup, I don't believe it refers to the Cup necessarily, but to Melchizedek. That's the key to the riddle.

I'm not so sure now the scene on the Ace has anything to do with the Graal. Waite doesn't say anything definitive in the PKT. It might, but I don't see any reason it has to be a consideration.

From the quote above, "...behind the undeclared priesthood which is according to the Order of Melchisedech..." In that whole quote he's contrasting the invisible order to the "official" order. I think that's what the M represents, it's a hint that points to the "undeclared" or invisible priesthood of Melchizedek.
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Here's something that might make this a little easier. A quote from Hebrews.

"Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest (Christ) to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron?" (Hebrews 7:11)

The whole thrust of the argument is the priesthood after the order of Melchizedek is superior to Levitical (official) priesthood.

John Michael Greer puts it succinctly, "References to Melchizedek in one form or another can be found all through Gnostic and esoteric Christian writings, usually accompanied by some claim to the priesthood of Melchizedek."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac View Post
I'm not so sure now the scene on the Ace has anything to do with the Graal. Waite doesn't say anything definitive in the PKT. It might, but I don't see any reason it has to be a consideration.

From the quote above, "...behind the undeclared priesthood which is according to the Order of Melchisedech..." In that whole quote he's contrasting the invisible order to the "official" order. I think that's what the M represents, it's a hint that points to the "undeclared" or invisible priesthood of Melchizedek.
The Melchizedek idea is an interesting one and worth considering. However, I don't see why you think the Ace of Cups would have nothing to do with the Graal when Waite said in PKT regarding the Ace: "It is an intimation of that which may lie behind the Lesser Arcana." Especially since he wrote the Graal book in the same year as he and Pixie did the deck, and the Graal book contains a whole appendix on the Lesser Arcana but says almost nothing on the Greater Arcana. It would be rarther short-sighted of him and I don't think he was either that abtuse nor that deflective of his intent.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barleywine View Post
Of course, when the contents is poured (revealed?) the M becomes upright.
It's also an M from the pov of the dove and the heavens above.
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When the card's upright the M would be concealed from most casual observers, but if the card ever turned up reversed in a reading someone might pick up on the M or just see it as a reversed W.

Mary, I've considered that quote. My view for awhile has been exactly as yours, mainly because of no other plausible theory. "That which may lie behind the Lesser Arcana" could be a reference to Daath. I don't have Katz and Goodwin's book Abiding in the Sanctuary, but I was told by someone that one of the priestly figures associated with Daath has the word Unitas (Unity) on his crown. The pictures I have are from the British Museum website and are fairly low quality. Besides that, the online site doesn't have all the pictures that are in the book so I may not even have the right one. If this could be verified it might shed a whole new light on things. If the minors correspond to the four worlds, and the worlds are unified in Daath, then Daath (Melchizidek) could indeed be "that which lies behind the Lesser Arcana."
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Da'ath is a priestly figure performing the transformation of the Eucharist with the word UNITAS on his bishop's crown.

If this had been his reference, whouldn't there have been an allusion to it in his section on the Minors that's given in HCHG? And what about his statement "The Tarot suits are actually the Graal Hallows." p. 604 He lists these Hallows as the Cup, the Lance, the Sword and the Dish.

"The Graal at its highest is the simulacrum or effigy of the Divine Mystery within the Church." p. 478

His chapter called "The Mystery of Faith" (p. 493ff) is about the Eucharist: "It is known that the mystery of faith in Christianity is above all things the Eucharist, in virtue of which the Divine Master is ever present in his Church and is always communicated to the soul. . . . The Graal mystery is the declared pageant of the Eucharist . . ." And, "In the Longer Prose Perceval we have seen that there is an account of five changes in the Graal which took place at the altar, being five transfigurations, the last of which assumed the seeming of a chalice, but at the same time, instead of a chalice, was some undeclared mystery: so the general as well as the particular elements of the legend in its highest form offer a mystery the nature of which is recognised by the mystic through certain signs which it carries on its person..."
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Mary, thanks for looking that up. I double-checked and I've got the card but it's too low-res to see anything.

All good points, but I'd just add that in The Hidden Church he also makes quite a few references to Melchizedek in relation to the Eucharist. And they mention "carrying bread and wine" exactly as in the Waite-Trinick images.

I doubt anyone will ever find notes by Waite or Smith that say, "this is why we put that upside-down M on the Ace" so I guess it comes down to whatever satisfies. I found what satisfies for now but I'll keep an open mind.
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The way I read it was that he refers to the priesthood as the 'Order of Melchizedek'.
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The thrust of Hebrews 7 seems to be that the priesthood of Melchizedek is distinct from the traditional Levitical or Aaronic priesthood. This could also serve to distinguish the priesthood of the Grail from that of the Latin Mass. Waite is careful to distinguish between the office of the Grail and the Mass as celebrated by the Church (as does the Grail literature). I think this gives further credence to the idea that the Ace of Cups refers specifically to the Holy Grail, not merely to the Mass.
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Hm.
I always saw it as an upside-down "M."

Honestly, if you want to hide something in plain sight, there are much better ways. This screams "LOOK AT THE MYSTERIOUS UPSIDE-DOWN LETTER 'M'! DON'T YOU WONDER WHAT IT MEANS? DON'TCHA? "

I'm hung up on why it's upside-down. To see it the right way, you'd have to turn over the cup. So you turn over the cup. Then what happens?
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