Confused over not connecting with Thoth

Tanga

ok. To me divination is the main reason for learning tarot, and the reason for that is, i see it as a model of the cosmos. It seems odd to me that one sees tarot as a model of the cosmos, but refuses using it in divination.

:)
...Which is the whole point of exploring the diversity of the use of Tarot on this forum.
Different people have different ideas and uses for everything.
:heart:
 

foolMoon

:)
...Which is the whole point of exploring the diversity of the use of Tarot on this forum.
Different people have different ideas and uses for everything.
:heart:

I suppose....

But it's like buying a car, and then keeping it in garage, just thinking and reading about its functionality and how it works, then going to motor special interest forums discussing about it, but doesn't drive. :)
 

Tanga

I suppose....

But it's like buying a car, and then keeping it in garage, just thinking and reading about its functionality and how it works, then going to motor special interest forums discussing about it, but doesn't drive. :)

Exactly (and/or maybe - because others may not agree depending on how they see things. After-all who really knows about "the true model" of the cosmos etc. etc. etc. - if you see what I mean. It's what we've decided it is.) - and does there have to be anything wrong with that?
One can study without applying what is studied in the "expected way" if they so wish.
(nobody's died or been injured because it's been done in that way - right?).

Plus - I can even think of someone I know who does just that, with cars...
:heart:


Pardon Thothies - this is the last comment I'm making on this, since it's off topic.
 

Michael Sternbach

There are certainly a lot of theoreticians in the Thoth world, satisfied with contemplating the symbolism etc. There is nothing wrong with that - to each their own. For me, something would be seriously lacking though.

But maybe a lot of people just can't connect with the Thoth on a divinatory level? Even though uncle Al suggested doing that for getting to know the cards better. Perhaps the symbolism is too complex for many. I don't see an awful lot of readings done with that deck on this forum either, despite its supposed popularity. Odd, somehow...
 

Barleywine

I came to divination after long exposure to the Thoth deck in connection with my qabalistic studies, so I have no real fascination with it as a tool for reading the future - at least not for myself. But it's what most curious acquaintances expect upon learning that I have the cards, so I'm happy to oblige with a non-prescriptive, open-ended kind of reading that looks at possibilities, latent tendencies and potential trends in the fabric of their personal reality. I find it's effective for getting them to examine the development of their situation with an eye to taking ownership of it. In that regard, I don't do "just for fun" readings (the Thoth is by no means light-hearted enough for that), even if "entertainment only" is the legal shelter public readers must fall back on. But, of course, I don't have a "practice" like many of you do, so I can pick my shots.

I also feel that there are better tools for this purpose. While still by no means infallible, predictive astrology has more substance to it, and a much longer recorded history of empirical observation. I Ching has a greater store of practical wisdom behind it. Lenormand - with its narrower range of symbolic expression - may even be better suited. "Intuition" is all well and good, but the challenge is to keep it free of the reader's personal bias; if the querent isn't present in the flesh but sits passively at the other end of an internet connection, I can see the act of predictive reading becoming, at best, a purely psychic or "mind-reading" exercise or, at worst, simply a tap on the reader's own subconscious.
 

foolMoon

My interest is using Thoth deck as one of divination tools. I use I Ching too.

If one doesn't use Thoth tarot in divination, then threads like "confused over not connecting with Thoth" couldn't be their interest either.
 

Barleywine

My interest is using Thoth deck as one of divination tools. I use I Ching too.

If one doesn't use Thoth tarot in divination, then threads like "confused over not connecting with Thoth" couldn't be their interest either.

I'm not so sure about that. I took "not connecting with the Thoth" to mean not being able to fathom its intricacies at a more fundamental symbolic level, not strictly for the purpose of divination. But I'll have to revisit the original post to see if that's accurate.
 

foolMoon

I'm not so sure about that. I took "not connecting with the Thoth" to mean not being able to fathom its intricacies at a more fundamental symbolic level, not strictly for the purpose of divination. But I'll have to revisit the original post to see if that's accurate.

Yeah I see your point, but I am also baffled to understand why one would be interested in a thread for someone confused over not connecting with Thoth, if one is not interested in divination side of Thoth. Thoth symbols are all there for divination too, in my book.
 

Barleywine

But maybe a lot of people just can't connect with the Thoth on a divinatory level? Even though uncle Al suggested doing that for getting to know the cards better. Perhaps the symbolism is too complex for many. I don't see an awful lot of readings done with that deck on this forum either, despite its supposed popularity. Odd, somehow...

I can think of a couple valid reasons:

As you note, the sheer esoteric breadth and depth Crowley invested in the Major Arcana can be daunting for those weaned on Waite's and Smith's nominally more approachable deck. He cross-connects many different systems of thought, and that greatly expands each card's range of expression.

The Minor Arcana don't "speak" in the same (admittedly slanted) narrative language the RWS minors do, so getting the story rolling can be awkward. They're basically augmented pip cards that don't offer the same kind of (some might say "tainted") interpretive fodder. I personally find the Thoth minors and Crowley's commentary extremely compelling, but that may not be a common perception.

In both cases, penetrating the Thoth's metaphysical paradigm and rendering it into manageable "bites" for divination (without resort to an RWS underpinning) can seem like a lot of work. Since I started with the Thoth and read with it exclusively for decades, I never noticed that possibility.
 

smw

If one doesn't use Thoth tarot in divination, then threads like "confused over not connecting with Thoth" couldn't be their interest either.

I wasn't really thinking about divination particularly with all the interesting connections that have come up Christianity, Gnostics, Schools of Magic, black white red, yellow, cars... :)