Help! My Thoth deck dislikes me!

Girl Archer

hello all! my Thoth deck really seems to have taken a dislike to me. every single draw has contained either failure, futility, cruelty, defeat etc... in my deck interview when I asked how I could bond with the deck better I drew Futility. I asked how the deck viewed me, and drew Failure. Wow. Harsh, much? I am saddened because I so wanted this deck and I to really bond.

So I ask for your help. How did you bond with yours? :)
 

Aeon418

in my deck interview when I asked how I could bond with the deck better I drew Futility. I asked how the deck viewed me, and drew Failure. Wow. Harsh, much?
Looks like a bit of typically brutal Thoth-style honesty to me.

7 of Swords - Futility. Focus, concentrate, don't jump around from one thing to another. Beware of superficiality.

7 of Disks - Failure. Not enough effort. Gives up too soon.
 

Girl Archer

Looks like a bit of typically brutal Thoth-style honesty to me.

7 of Swords - Futility. Focus, concentrate, don't jump around from one thing to another. Beware of superficiality.

7 of Disks - Failure. Not enough effort. Gives up too soon.

Well, darn it all! I was not and am not giving up on this deck so soon. I do want to know how you bonded with your deck, Aeon. Thanks for interpreting that BTW. Why has Crowley titled the card of perseverance (7 of Pentacles) as Failure? I notice he has given negative terms for quite a few cards. Was he a pessimist by nature?
 

Aeon418

I do want to know how you bonded with your deck, Aeon.
I can't really answer that because I don't go in for this 'deck bonding' stuff. I just like the deck. Simple as that.
Why has Crowley titled the card of perseverance (7 of Pentacles) as Failure? I notice he has given negative terms for quite a few cards. Was he a pessimist by nature?
It's a little bit deceptive. Despite the surface appearance, the 7's are all cards of Victory. Each one of them points to what needs to be done, or what needs to be overcome, to achieve Victory.
 

Girl Archer

I can't really answer that because I don't go in for this 'deck bonding' stuff. I just like the deck. Simple as that.

It's a little bit deceptive. Despite the surface appearance, the 7's are all cards of Victory. Each one of them points to what needs to be done, or what needs to be overcome, to achieve Victory.

Oh. Quite convoluted, this one. Correct me if I am wrong but how are 7's the card of Victory? in wands it represents valour/defiance, in cups it shows delusions/debauch, in swords it shows futility/deception/theft and in case of pentacles failure/perseverance. In case of Chariot, power struggles and a hard won victory perhaps.. It all seems so confusing.
 

Zephyros

I see the Seven of Discs as a card of difficult, back-breaking work. In the RWS it would appear to show Adam after being banished from Eden, toiling in order to make his daily bread. Mercury has little strength this far low on the Tree, and stands little chance of rousing placid Taurus, especially in the sphere of Venus.
Since the sixes show the element in its ideal form, the sevens show that which is missing in order to achieve Eden once again.

As for bonding, like Aeon I don't really go for it. It would be a great understatement to say I like it, but if I bonded with it, it was by learning about it.

If you don't mind my saying, it sounds like you're trying to superimpose your own ideas onto it, whether it be RWS meanings or your own "intuition." That doesn't work for the Thoth, it is shoving a square peg into a round hole. If you approach something completely alien to you with the approach that your "intuition" already knows everything, that's just not allowing new things to sink in. It isn't allowing it to teach you, and considering the readings you're getting, it smacks of hubris.
 

foolMoon

7s are unstable and unpredictable. Get out of there, and take the path of 8s, where you apply steady hard work learning them. Then move up to the 9s, where it will be joy, fun and favorable time / bond with much increased knowledge.
 

Barleywine

If you have time, read Dion Fortune's passages on the Sevens and Venus as they relate to Netzach in her book, The Mystical Qabalah. She set me straight on it. I always knew the Sevens are unbalanced and a bit enfeebled by being low on the Tree and off the Middle Pillar, but that didn't seem to square with Venus and Victory. But there is more to the story.

Oh, and I didn't have to bond with it either, it sort of latched onto my brain and wouldn't let go. Some kind of mind-meld, I guess :).
 

Jupiter Caelus

I took the horribly cliché path of starting with the RW and going to the Thoth. I think that's the norm for those who self-awaken to the Tarot, especially when they are desperately trying to escape the New Age veneer which has hijacked and latched onto the RW.

So, the Thoth deck is going to have this 'shock', but that shock is interchangeable with any word and feeling; some say it "melds" into them, others that it doesn't "like them". The key being that it will dislodge and consolidate on a persons level of understanding.

I'm sympathetic to the early days of experiencing the cards and feeling the dark dread of drawing a 7 of Disks and 9 of Wands. The big but there is that there's so much more to a word. How many people hear the name Mao and immediately think "cackling communism", yet know nothing on the man or the time in which he lived. Ask the same with Mussolini; "ferocious fascism" comes to mind. The catch is that these buzzwords are actually quite correct, but the masses in their illiteracy just accept and dread rather than know and learn. The difference is highly important.
 

Girl Archer

If you don't mind my saying, it sounds like you're trying to superimpose your own ideas onto it, whether it be RWS meanings or your own "intuition." That doesn't work for the Thoth, it is shoving a square peg into a round hole. If you approach something completely alien to you with the approach that your "intuition" already knows everything, that's just not allowing new things to sink in. It isn't allowing it to teach you, and considering the readings you're getting, it smacks of hubris.

You are right. I guess I am guilty of that. It isn't even like I was doing it consciously. It just happened subconsciously. Such a bleak card, that 7 of Pents and the colour schemes on that. In contrast, if you look at the Phantasmagoric theater tarot.. http://tarotkorea.new21.net/deck/Phantasmagoric/Coins07.jpg, you will know what I mean. How do I break free of this habit though? I am confused mainly with the differences in meaning, mainly because ultimately it should all lead to the same thing right? Every deck is just a conduit to material and spiritual self-actualization, right?

7s are unstable and unpredictable. Get out of there, and take the path of 8s, where you apply steady hard work learning them. Then move up to the 9s, where it will be joy, fun and favorable time / bond with much increased knowledge.
Thanks foolMoon, I will try that out :)

If you have time, read Dion Fortune's passages on the Sevens and Venus as they relate to Netzach in her book, The Mystical Qabalah. She set me straight on it. I always knew the Sevens are unbalanced and a bit enfeebled by being low on the Tree and off the Middle Pillar, but that didn't seem to square with Venus and Victory. But there is more to the story.

Oh, and I didn't have to bond with it either, it sort of latched onto my brain and wouldn't let go. Some kind of mind-meld, I guess :).

Thank you for weighing in, barleywine. I don't have the time right now for that, however the recommendation is duly jotted down in my new Thoth study note book. I always thought the sevens stood for conflict and challenges. As for the whole Tree thing, I need to read a Qabalah for dummies kinda book to understand what that is all about :laugh:

I took the horribly cliché path of starting with the RW and going to the Thoth. I think that's the norm for those who self-awaken to the Tarot, especially when they are desperately trying to escape the New Age veneer which has hijacked and latched onto the RW.

So, the Thoth deck is going to have this 'shock', but that shock is interchangeable with any word and feeling; some say it "melds" into them, others that it doesn't "like them". The key being that it will dislodge and consolidate on a persons level of understanding.

I'm sympathetic to the early days of experiencing the cards and feeling the dark dread of drawing a 7 of Disks and 9 of Wands. The big but there is that there's so much more to a word. How many people hear the name Mao and immediately think "cackling communism", yet know nothing on the man or the time in which he lived. Ask the same with Mussolini; "ferocious fascism" comes to mind. The catch is that these buzzwords are actually quite correct, but the masses in their illiteracy just accept and dread rather than know and learn. The difference is highly important.

You are absolutely right! I couldn't have worded it better, "trying to escape the New Age veneer". I thought I was ready. To finally go over to Thoth. Obviously that is not to say I have achieved total mastery over the RWS, but still I thought I was in a place where I could finally begin my Thoth journey. How does one cross over from the "dread" stage to "learn and accept" stage?