Greenwood ~ General Themes & Connections

Bat Chicken

This is a thread to include general discoveries and themes in the Greenwood Tarot that go beyond a single card study. Please post as much as you find!

This post is for an index of posts as they accumulate:

Blake
Ogham
Judaism/10 lost tribes
 

Bat Chicken

Blake, Druidism, the Lost Tribes of Israel and the Greenwood

As originally posted in the IDS thread:

Some research I did this weekend puts a whole new light on the 6 of Arrows and, perhaps when we learn where the other ancient Judaic symbols are in the Greenwood, on the deck as a whole.

I continued to dig into some stuff about the earliest point in which the theory that the Tuatha de Danaan were actually the Lost Israelite Tribe of Dan emerged. The majority of arguments put forward are very imaginative and I suggest taking the evidence from them with a grain of salt.

Supposedly, the earliest the theory was raised by Gildas, a British Celtic historian in around 500CE. I used to have an English translation of Gildas from my medieval history classes in uni, but, I can't find it, or I'd confirm.

I have seen arguments put forth by Christian movements who interpret the tribes as 'lost' in more than one way. I have even seen the argument put forth by Zionists and 'Noahidists', translating 'tuatha de' into the Convenant. The Tribe of Dan, a seafaring tribe, is given responsibility for a huge number of northern European place names and is supposed to explain the 'Danaan' in Tuatha de Danaan. Some groups go so far to say nothing on the islands is not semitic in origin and use the Bible to support it.

But archaeology is not so quick to agree. The possible dates of migration do not coincide entirely with the earliest peoples of Ireland and the monuments we now know as pre-Celtic are much older than the events that split apart the tribes of Israel. DNA evidence also seems to suggest that any connection is unlikely. Further, the translation of place names ignores the local languages entirely, not to mention there is no linguistic connection. It may be coincidence that early christian texts referred to the Israelites as Tuatha Dé and it was not a reference to Ireland at all.

I went on further to investigate the one book that discusses the shamanic roots of Judaism (Gershon Winkler's Magic of the Ordinary). It is really interesting. The early documenting of the Jewish people opens a window into how shamanism and 'sorcery' were practiced. Because the religion kept records for so much longer than most, there is real documentation.

Practices described in the book were oppressed within Christian societies as well as Jewish, promoting from within both hierarchies a patriarchal system, further alienating the mystic roots of any of the peoples of Europe. Earliest Christianity itself suffered the same oppression at the hand of the Roman Church according to the Gnostics.

That patriarchal system is reflected in Blake's view of Druidism. The concept of the Jewish magician/shaman was very likely something these early revivalists had been aware of aware of through renewed interest in occultism.

Early Druidic revival (meso-Druidism?) was created in the early 18th century during Blake's lifetime (although discussed widely in the 17th c) and the original Order still exists, but, it is and was MALE only, much like freemasonry. Blake's direct involvement and even leadership is controversial. The movement did, however, put a lot of stock into the idea that the Celts of the islands were, in fact, one of the lost 10 tribes. But they also believed at that time that the megaliths and stone circles were built by the Druids.

There seems to be no solid outcome to these arguments and the reason I explored it at all was because of the Jewish symbols appearing in the Greenwood and the apparent relationships the Greenwood has to Blake. Winkler's book is much later than the Greenwood, but the theories themselves are not new. If Chesca was a Druid and had a Jewish background, the information I have found here could have provided the route to her conversion. It is just speculation and I am not sure why I care, but, in trying to understand the deck I have found the mystery intriguing.

As for the 6 of Arrows, the Tribe of Dan was a sea faring one. If the Isle of Apples is Britain and the star of David is on the ship's sail, then I think we have our answer to what Chesca may have indeed believed. A simple minor ancana card with so many layers...

I think it is very possible that Chesca did buy into the same theory as Blake and so her apparent Druidism may also source from there and her shamanism may have Jewish roots, or at least she believed that it does. Ultimately, her conversion could have followed by extension, those beliefs held by British Israelism. The Fall, the Void of Creation, the links are rather interesting coincidences...
 

Mi-Shell

I am sure, that by now all serious students of the Greenwood Tarot have invested in
the Green Man Tree Oracle,
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=85888&highlight=Green+Man+Tree+Oracle
the Druid Plant Oracle
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/druid-plant-oracle/review.shtml
and the Druid Animal Oracle.
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/druid-animal-oracle/review.shtml
The cards are very beautiful, the decks complement each other and the books contain good information on all the plants and Animals we see on the Greenwood deck.
 

Bat Chicken

I love the Druid Oracles!
But as a student of Ogham, the Green Man Tree Oracle is not a particularly good source for information on the trees. I would suggest using the links above. In the Ogham Table of Contents is an excellent list of books. The introduction thread also weeds out some of the controversies around the extended alphabet and sources of tree myth.
 

Mi-Shell

Bat Chicken said:
I love the Druid Oracles!
But as a student of Ogham, the Green Man Tree Oracle is not a particularly good source for information on the trees. I would suggest using the links above. In the Ogham Table of Contents is an excellent list of books. The introduction thread also weeds out some of the controversies around the extended alphabet and sources of tree myth.

It is noteworthy, that you think so.
But for those of us who do not know any better, can you please explain WHY the info in the Green Man Tree Oracle is inacurate/ wanting?
Maybe you could take Hazel as an example?
I personally am not into Ogam at all and would like to see, where the info on Hazel - or others for that matter is wrong - or "flaky" or...?
:)
 

Bat Chicken

Don't get me wrong - it is BEAUTIFUL and has a very basic introduction to the myths of the trees, but, it is a little lightweight. I wouldn't say don't use it, I would just suggest that there are much better sources available.

The GMTO is simply not enough information and it is designed for divination - much as your own posting of multiple (wonderful) extra sources would indicate.

The book lacks the physical elements and characteristics (bark, leaves, roots) of the trees - how it grows, where it grows (it only alludes to it sometimes) and when it grows.

In the case of the Hazel, the meaning of the myth is given, but largely, the characteristics and many uses of the tree are absent.

Worthington's drawings of the trees are excellent and knowing John Matthews the research has been done, but, the GMTO doesn't transmit it - it is too abbreviated. A good example would be "Birch". Unlike many of the trees in the cards - do you notice that the birch is not alone but in a grove? The book makes no mention why, but clearly the author and artist knew. And it is significant and anobservant person would note that and be left without explanation.

Because the Ogham symbols themselves are not really present in the Greenwood (that I have seen so far) an in depth study of Ogham is not necessary. Those wanting to explore Druidic culture and religion further should look at the Ogham Book thread.

One of the best non-Ogham specific sources of myth, physical properties, etc., is "Tree Wisdom" by Jacqueline Memory Paterson. With good natural observation as we are encouraging so much with the Greenwood, knowing the mundane properties as well as the mythological ones is key.

Does that explain my motivation a bit better? I can come across as authoritarian... :)

****Edited to add: There are also elements in tree lore that are very imaginatively added by Robert Graves in the White Goddess. I can't say off hand if they are used in the GMTO - I am inclined to say not, but most other sources do which include 'tree months'. But since we are dealing in murky waters anyway with the Greenwood, I'll just make that known and leave it to your to dcide what feels right! :D
 

Cat*

I have both the Druid Animal Oracle (DAO) and Druid Plant Oracle (DPO) but never bought the Green Man Tree Oracle because I didn't like the faces in the trees. I just can't relate to trees with just one facial expression (one that is always male on top of that)... It's a pity, though, because otherwise I'd have bought a Tree Oracle illustrated by Will Worthington in an instant!

I wouldn't expect an oracle of any kind to provide me with exhausting information on its subject matter. In fact, I've never found an oracle (tarot or other) that made me feel that its companion materials told me everything I need to know. Even the thickest companion book can only say so much about the specific plant/animal/goddess/whatever, the myths/lore attached to them, the reasons for the card design, etc. Luckily, there's always more to find out, learn, research, experience... :)

In the case of the DAO and DPO in combination with the Greenwood, I find it very nice to have the great illustrations of the oracle cards AND the books with a bunch of useful information that may give me pointers for further research/thinking of my own. :)

All that said, I'd be curious what you think of the DPO/DAO companion books if you know them, Bat Chicken (especially in comparison to your opinion of the Green Man Tree Oracle book)...
 

Bat Chicken

Hi Cat*! :)
I agree with your take on oracles, which is why I would generally not recommend an oracle as a reference if you can only afford to choose one other source (either financially or because you only have time for one). I, personally, like exhaustive research and will go to many sources, but that is not for everyone.

I do have both the DPO and DAO. It is nice how the various Druid Oracles work off each other to paint a broader picture for divination. For divination enthusiasts they are a must have! :)

As for a review of the DAO, Mi-Shell is the animal expert, not I, so I defer to more knowledgeable people to comment on that.

The DPO is nicely presented with the physical properties, the healing properties and the myths. They are abbreviated as to be expected in an oracle book, but I get a fuller picture from it than the GMTO and place to start. Unlike the Trees, there are few good sources with both the physical and the folkloric elements of plant study (and much of what is out there is VERY localized), so it is a great resource on its own just for that reason. It is amazing to me how still so much of that knowledge is oral.

Studying the Greenwood means different things to different people. It is an amazing deck that offers many levels of study.In spite of its pre-Celtic label, the deck spans a much greater range of time. For anyone with a serious interest in the Druid aspect, a deeper study of Ogham is highly recommended. Considering it was the only uniquely Celtic form of written communication in a primarily oral culture, it is fascinating and controversial, just like the Greenwood itself. Words to the Druids were powerful. It is interesting to note, however, that Druids were literate in Greek.
 

Bat Chicken

I thought I'd pull this out of the IDS thread and put it here:

I am beginning to wonder if (some of?) the animals of the Court in the Greenwood may be represented by constellations. The occurrence of the six pointed star has never sat right with me in the Greenwood. It is like a conspiracy theory the way this one element takes a left turn. There are other appearances of the 'jewish' connection but it just felt WRONG.

Sirius, the "Dog Star" is called the triangle star and is depicted by Blake as a six pointed star. There is a Hare, and a Hawk that are apparently close by in the sky. With Chesca's open connection to a cult of Isis and her knowledge of Blake, the Egyptian connection to Sirius seems more likely. There are constant reminders throughout the deck of TIME. Sirius was the basis for the Egyptian calendar. The Lascaux caves are covered in animals that bear a strong but yet unproven correspondence to constellations and their caves most often line up with the Solstices or Equinoxes. The Caves and dolmens of ancient Britain and Ireland are clearly astronomical in orientation.