78 Weeks: Eight Deniers/Coins

jmd

To find out what these threads refer to, please seeThe link above provides suggested dates and links to all threads for this study.

Some amongst us may be working through the deck in a different order, and using different decks.

For more general comments or questions about the 78 weeks, please post in the thread linked above.

Enjoy!
 

CreativeFire

8 of Pentacles

Still catching up with my notes :)

The 8 of Pentacles was quite an easy one for me to relate directly to a work environment (following on with my different take on the cards).

As I am currently studying (while working) I definitely related to this card in regards to the hard work and dedication it takes to stay focused on studies and assignments and the new knowledge learnt or applied. To me personally each of the pentacles represented the numerous assignment modules that make up the entire diploma and working on each one individually and thoroughly to make sure it has all the requirements to meet the subject criteria for assessment. Also I felt it was about being determined and even a bit methodical to keep going to finish each one and then start on the next to achieve the desired end result. :)

On to the 9 of Pents ;)

CF
 

gregory

Eight of Pentacles - Revelations Tarot

First impressions
This guy looks like he is making baskets….!

From the artist’s website:
[intepretation]Upright


He works hard away into the darkness. He has goals and ambitions and he is going to put his back into it.

[reversed]The work isn't done and he lays there questioning and contemplating about his motives and drive.

[symbols/images]
The high contrast of the images draw focus on the main characters of each image - the industrious worker, and the idle one. The image plays out the theme of achieving success through determination.

Colour: navy blues - colours of Virgo

Traditional meanings
Upright:

The card of the apprentice. Skills being turned to profitable ends. Present efforts ensure future rewards.
Reversed:
Quick returns at the expense of quality and reputation
My impressions:
Upright
We are looking down on someone who is working at some craft or other – it really does look like a pentacle shaped basket. He is totally involved in it. The background is rayed purple. “Behind” him (as he sits) are swirls of purple with two gold stars.

Reversed
A similar view - but this man is fooling around – looks like he is playing a game of some kind. He’s half lying there, with three incomplete looking pentacles scattered around him.

My take
I’d say – hard work pays off, and it is well worth taking it seriously. And there is pleasure and pride to be had in it. It will, as the phrase goes, “get him somewhere” – I think perhaps recognition in the creative arts, or a good job, again, in a creative sphere. On the other hand – those who can’t be bothered to work, end up in dead end jobs marking time – and fooling around like that can even get you fired. There is no satisfaction in it either. And it can even be dangerous. But he doesn’t care – he thinks he is the bees knees. Pride comes before a fall – and the fall will come.

The book suggests a lack of interest in the reversed image – I would see it as even more negative than that. Lack of interest could simply mean being in the wrong job. I think there is far more wrong than that ! I don’t think this person would make a go of any job with their current attitude.

All the cards from this deck can be viewed here.
 

gregory

Thoth

Card name: Eight of Disks

First impressions
A rose tree (maybe) – though BoT says fruit, those look like roses. Further study tells me that what I assumed was the centre of each flower is actually a fruit… Eight flowers, and each protected by a curling leaf. Behind, a golden sky, and hills. Sigils of Sun and Virgo.

From the Book of Thoth
THE FOUR EIGHTS

The four Eights are attributed to Hod. Being in the same plane as the Sevens on the Tree of Life, but on the other side, the same inherent defects as are found in the Sevens will apply.

Yet one may perhaps urge this alleviation, that the Eights come as (in a sense) a remedy for the error of the Sevens. The mischief has been done; and there is now a reaction against it. One may, therefore, expect to find that, while there is no possibility of perfection in the cards of this number, they are free from such essential and original errors as in the Lower case.

(Let there be a short digression with regard to the signs of the Zodiac. In the case of each element, the Cardinal sign represents the swift, impulsive onrush of the idea. In the Kerubic sign, the element has come to its full balance of power; and in the other signs the force is fading away. Thus, Aries represents the rush of fire, Lightning; Leo, its power, the Sun; and Sagittarius, the rainbow its sublimation. Similar considerations apply to the other elements. See the Attributions section: The Triplicities of the Zodiac.)

The Eight of Disks is called Prudence. This card is a great deal better than the last two, because, in purely material matters, especially those relating to actual money, there is a sort of strength in doing nothing at all. The problem of every financier is, first of all, to gain time; if his resources are sufficient, he always beats the market. This is the card of “putting something away for a rainy day”.

Its attribution is Sol in Virgo; it is the card of the husband-man; he can do little more than sow the seed, sit back, and wait for the harvest. There is nothing noble about this aspect of the card; like all the Eights, it represents an element of calculation, and gambling is securely profitable if one has adjusted the cagnotte properly.

There is yet another point which complicates this card. The Eight of Disks represents the geomantic figure Populus, which is an easy-going figure, and at the same time stable. One thinks of Queen Victoria’s time, of a man who is “something in the City” rolling up to Town with Albert the Good advertized by his watch- chain and his frock-coat; on the surface he is very affable, but he is nobody’s fool.

PRUDENCE EIGHT OF DISKS


The number Eight, Hod, is very helpful in this card, because it represents Mercury in his most spiritual aspect, and he both rules and is exalted in the sign of Virgo, which belongs to the Decan, and is governed by the Sun. It signifies intelligence lovingly applied to material matters, especially those of the agriculturalist, the artificer and the engineer.

One might suggest that this card marks the turn of the tide. The seven of Disks is in one sense the fullest possible establishment of Matter-compare Atu XV-the lowest fallen and therefore the highest exalted. These last three cards seem to prepare the explosion which will renew the whole Cycle. Note that Virgo is Yod, the secret seed of Life, and also the Virgin Earth awaiting the Phallic Plough.

The interest of this card is the interest of the common people. The rulership of the Sun in Virgo suggests also birth. The disks are arranged in the form of the geomantic figure Populus. These disks may be represented as the flowers or fruits of a great tree, its solid roots in fertile land.

In the Yi King, Sol in Virgo is represented by the 33rd Hexagram, Thun, “Big Air”. It means “retiring”; and the commentary indicates how best to make use of that manoeuvre. This is congruous enough with the essence of Virgo, the secret withdrawing of Energy into the fallow Earth. Populus, moreover, is the Moon retiring from manifestation to her conjunction with the Sun.

Images and Symbolism

Frieda Harris says in her essays:

Eight of Disks = Prudence. Hod in the suit of Earth. Mercury in Virgo."
The Disks are arranged as the geomantic figure Populus, and represent the fruit of a great tree. It signifies intelligence applied to material matters.
Also:
Eight of Disks = Mercury (Astrological symbolism on Eight of Disks card actually reads, Sun in Virgo. Card title is Prudence.) in Virgo. Hod.
The geomantic figure Populus forms the position of the disks which appear as flowers on a great tree protected by the leaves. The possession of the fruits of the earth brings its own responsibility.
Snuffin points out that each fruit is divided into five segments and each flower has five petals; five is the number of the letter Hé, associated with fertility and nature. The two together add to ten, the number of Malkuth/manifestation.
The colour of the tree trunk is grey – Virgo in Briah. The golden sky is “yellow fading into orange” – showing the influences of both Mercury and the Sun. The sigil of Virgo is orange (Hod) and that of the Sun plum with a green dot in the centre, identifying it with the fruit and the importance of the Sun to growing things.
Banzhaf points out that the chaos of the seven (which I did not entirely take on board…) is over and order is re-established; these fruits and flowers are arranged in the geomantic figure Populus – “doing in doing nothing”.
DuQuette finds the card “inoffensive” but says that the number 8 position is still unbalanced and weak. He also says that Populus represents the Moon, and wonders why this is so – unless it is because the Moon is associated with planting.

Meaning (cribbed from Wasserman)
Eight of Disks: Prudence. Intelligence applied to material affairs. Agriculture. Building. Skill. Cunning. Industriousness. III-dignified: "Penny wise and pound foolish" attitudes. Avariciousness and hoarding. Meanness. Over-carefulness in small things at the expense of the great.

DuQuette
Skill; prudence; cunning.
Over-careful in small things at the expense of great: “Penny wise and pound foolish”: gain of ready money in small sums; mean avaricious; industrious; cultivation of land; hoarding, lacking in enterprise.
Traditional meanings – From Thirteen’s book of meanings:
EIGHTS
Going with the Rider-Waite deck, we'll relate the Eights to Strength. The Eights are like the Maiden, the will and intelligence to bring our passions to heel. By doing so, the two make the lion's energy more efficient, more powerful and lofty in purpose.
The number eight is, likewise, about limitations but also about transcending them. As with Strength, having rules allow one to achieve something higher, more divine, as wild fire banked in a fireplace creates more heat and light then if it was allowed to burn as it liked.
As Seven was the individual learning to stand his ground and prove his resourcefulness, eight is the individual bowing to limitations. Rather than defying them, he finds creative ways to get the most out of such rules. The hope being that not only will he learn from such restrictions, but that they will bring out the best in him.
Eight of Pentacles
An apprentice or craftsman works on the last of eight pentacles that he has created, the other hanging completed. To understand this card, we might well go all the way back to the Three of Pentacles and the story that developed from there. We saw the craftsman gaining patronage, which led to an abundance of funds to hold tight to in Four of Pentacles. Alas, the craftsman lost it all in Five of Pentacles, but generosity saved him in the Six of Pentacles. In the seven/pents he stood his ground, waiting and watching for a fresh opportunity.
Now that opportunity has come in the Eight of Pentacles. This card could, in fact, indicate a new job or new training. A new investment or new workout program. In some interpretations, the querent might be at a lower level than he was, going through an apprenticeship. This might be a little demoralizing, but there is still gratitude for the employment. Either way, there are clearly no patrons this time to finance him; he is working hard to prove something to himself and his new employer, not to impress rich backers.
Seeing it from another angle, it is working out at a local gym rather than at a expensive fitness center, and working out for your own good not in hopes of impressing anyone. This card is about diligence and limiting your work to a particular project. It is doing your best not to show off what you can do or in the hopes of something more (as in the three/pents for patronage), but because you want to take pride in your work.
To this end, whether learning this skill or already a master at it, the querent will (or should) pay attention to details, research, train, and do whatever else is needed to feel that their work goes above and beyond. Even if no one else notices, they will know that they have taken themselves to a higher level.

(I include Thirteen’s meanings here, but the way, as while someone else was adding them to her Thoth posts, I found them enlightening in context, even though the descriptions are way different !)

My impressions (appearance of the card):
I find it rather overblown. It seems like too much of a good thing – the sky in particular feels like the scorching sky of a desert, and thus it makes no sense to me that the tree is flourishing as it is. I like the colours of the flowers, and the tree itself – but it feels very out of place in the landscape as shown.

My take (what I make of it/what I might see in a reading where I drew it)
It suggests too much too fast, to me. Over-confidence, complacency; getting a result that looks good and not looking closely at it to see if it is in fact as good as it looks. So the card title fits that quite well. Exercise a degree of caution.
 

jackdaw*

Eight of Pentacles (Rider Waite Tarot)

First Impressions
Depending on how it’s done, on the artist’s grasp on the cards and their own individual takes, the Eight of Pentacles sometimes seems to be interchangeable with the Three of Pentacles. Look at the Morgan Greer, or even better, the Hudes. Clearly they are two takes on the same concept.

It’s easy to see why; both cards deal with skilled work, with craftsmen plying their trade or honing their skills. In the case of the Three, he is doing it for hire, and is under the watchful eyes of others. He has to work to others’ specifications. But in the Eight here, there is no such implication. He has only himself to please, and is doing it for the practice or the love of what he does.

The central figure on Waite and Colman Smith’s depiction is a burly, bushy-haired young workman. A carpenter, or more likely a woodcarver. He wears crude soft shoes of reddish-brown leather, red hose and blue smock, and a heavy black craftsman’s apron tied over the lot. He sits astride a bench and has a hammer raised in one hand, poised to strike the chisel or awl in the other. With these tools he is inscribing a five-pointed star in a disk propped up on a block on the bench before him - a pentacle. He’s been at this a while; five more are hung from the tree or wooden beam before him, a sixth is on the ground propped up against the bench, and a seventh lies flat on the ground. In the distance, separated from the key scene by the distinctive double horizontal line of Pamela Colman Smith’s stage cards, is a far-off town or village. Clearly he works at some remove from the maddening crowd.

Some depictions (Robin Wood, Gilded) show the main figure here as a youth or even a child - someone who is just learning their craft. Others, such as the World Spirit, show him under the tutelage and watchful eye of an older and more experienced figure like a teacher or mentor. I see these depictions as referring to him as an apprentice. I don’t really see signs of that here, except possibly in the fact that if we look closely enough at the eight pentacles here, they aren’t all the same. Some are a wee bit askew or imperfect. If I were determined to see the man as learning his trade and honing his skill, I would see it as a sign that “practice makes perfect”.

Creator’s Notes
Waite says in The Pictorial Key to the Tarot:
Waite said:
An artist in stone at his work, which he exhibits in the form of trophies.
Is it stone? Really? Most depictions of this card show them as being made of wood or gold. But it would make sense with the use of hammer and chisel. However, I think this is another example of Waite’s descriptions and Colman Smith’s pictures being removed from one another, not quite corresponding.

Others’ Interpretations
Waite defines the Eight of Pentacles as:
Waite said:
Divinatory Meanings: Work, employment, commission, craftsmanship, skill in craft and business, perhaps in the preparatory stage. Reversed: Voided ambition, vanity, cupidity, exaction, usury. It may also signify the possession of skill, in the sense of the ingenious mind turned to cunning and intrigue.

Thirteen builds it all up as a story using much of the suit of Pentacles:
Thirteen said:
An apprentice or craftsman works on the last of eight pentacles that he has created, the other hanging completed. To understand this card, we might well go all the way back to the Three of Pentacles and the story that developed from there. We saw the craftsman gaining patronage, which led to an abundance of funds to hold tight to in Four of Pentacles. Alas, the craftsman lost it all in Five of Pentacles, but generosity saved him in the Six of Pentacles. In the seven/pents he stood his ground, waiting and watching for a fresh opportunity.

Now that opportunity has come in the Eight of Pentacles. This card could, in fact, indicate a new job or new training. A new investment or new workout program. In some interpretations, the querent might be at a lower level than he was, going through an apprenticeship. This might be a little demoralizing, but there is still gratitude for the employment. Either way, there are clearly no patrons this time to finance him; he is working hard to prove something to himself and his new employer, not to impress rich backers.

Seeing it from another angle, it is working out at a local gym rather than at a expensive fitness center, and working out for your own good not in hopes of impressing anyone. This card is about diligence and limiting your work to a particular project. It is doing your best not to show off what you can do or in the hopes of something more (as in the three/pents for patronage), but because you want to take pride in your work.

To this end, whether learning this skill or already a master at it, the querent will (or should) pay attention to details, research, train, and do whatever else is needed to feel that their work goes above and beyond. Even if no one else notices, they will know that they have taken themselves to a higher level.
Funny, that resonates with a perspective that occurred to me while searching the forums. Well, in other words, a perspective that was suggested somewhere here and I’ve taken into consideration. That of someone operating in the outdoors on a crude bench and propped up by a block of wood rather than a workshop with a designated workbench. It makes me think of a hobby, perhaps someone attempting to make a living or at least a supplementary income from his hobby, someone moonlighting and picking up a little money on the side. Or at least trying to, just starting out. Back to square one.

Symbols and Attributes
Astrologically the Seven of Pentacles is linked to the Sun in Virgo. The Sun is, of course, a powerful life force imbuing one with great potential for achievement. Virgo, an Earth sign, is a sign of quiet dedication, analytical and perfectionist tendencies, work. So the Sun in Virgo would indicate a time when one’s hard work and dedication pays off in spades. As long as one pays great attention to detail, the possibilities are endless.

The number eight, as the doubling of the stable and structured four, speaks of extreme order and stability. The need to create order, make sense out of disorder, is a key factor here. Combined with the stable and grounded Earth element of the suit of Pentacles, and the Eight of Pentacles is about creating order in the material world. Getting ducks in a row on the job, putting your physical world to rights.

Combine these aspects of the card - Sun in Virgo, Eight, Pentacles - and what do we get? Conscientious and meticulous physical work that leads to great material potential. Bodes well for this card.

The central figure in the card is the craftsman himself. He is working patiently on a pentacle before him on the bench. Why a bench, why not a table like il Bagatello uses in the old Milanese decks like the Soprafino? It would make more sense, and be more practical. I wonder if this is a deliberate choice to emphasize the apprentice aspect of the card? Look, poor guy, doesn’t have proper tools, doesn’t have a proper workspace, doesn’t even have a proper inclined work surface to prop up his work, just a ratty old block of wood. He’s just starting out. Hasn’t earned his place, his work space, can’t afford good tools. Another possibility I’ve come across as well is that it’s a visual pun. Johannes Fiebig and Evelin Burger suggested in The Ultimate Guide to the Rider Waite Tarot that the advice it carries is to “be your own benchmark”. Bench. Mark. Get it? Basically, having no guild or master or what have you, he has nothing against which to mark his progress. So he has to create his own standards. As for the block of wood, I got nothing. But the oversized hammer and chisel I’m inclined to take as either another indication that he’s just starting out, and hasn’t got the right tools for the job, or a Masonic reference, along with the apron he wears.

Yes, I know it’s not a true Mason’s apron as we see it today. Of course nowadays they‘re ceremonial and much fancier; you wouldn‘t wear them to protect your clothing from stains, tears and stone dust. But it’s an apron nonetheless, and craftsmen other than Masons wore them too. It’s black, indicating hidden knowledge and the unconscious. So perhaps this guy is deeper than we think. Also, Black is the colour associated with Saturn; as I found in the Seven of Pentacles, Saturn is a planet of order and the slow workings of time. The apron covers a blue smock; blue is a colour of ideas and intuition and the unconscious process. His leggings are the red of action and purpose and outer activity. All together, the colours the craftsman wears point to a well-rounded individual whose inner and outer worlds are balanced out, and are extended outward into the material world of work. His posture - the bent back, the focus on the pentacle beneath his hands - underlines his emphasis on material work.

The eight pentacles of the card, the products of his work, are arranged interestingly. From the craftsman’s perspective four of them are hung above his eye level, the remaining four are below eye level. If he were to look up from the one he’s working on, that is. The four overhead, I see as his goal, as something to which he can aspire. It speaks of his ambition. They’re hung up high to attract the attention of passing trade; he’s proud of them and wants to show them off. More on that in a bit. I’ve also seen them referred to as part of the Tree of Life. But their spacing is too regular for that, and I take that in the spirit that we get to the point of seeing Qabalah and Sephirotic references everywhere once we start.

The other (lower) four pentacles are not at that level yet, but they give him something toward which he can work, something for which he can strive and seek to improve himself. Of these lower four, only one seems to be actually hung on the post; one is propped against the bench, one is on the bench and one lies flat on the ground. The two on the ground carry a caution, to my way of thinking they represent the risk of spreading oneself too thin. As if the craftsman is so busy that he hasn’t time to find a proper place to hang them safely out of the way before he has to start on the next one. Take the time to finish one thing before jumping to the next. And “the next” in this case is the one on the bench before him. There is always more work to be done.

Notice how the pentacles all differ, how some have thicker edges or borders, how some have the stars slightly askew. Some readers view this as referring to the apprentice aspect of the card, how he hasn’t yet got it down pat and practice makes perfect. Others see it as sloppy craftsmanship. But uniqueness, the fact that no two are the same, is a hallmark of hand-crafted items of any kind. And I kind of like the endearing notion that this might be a nod to the old decks, the crude woodcut Marseille decks in which the Deniers were not identical. But really, if you want eight perfect and identical cookie-cutter pentacles to hand outside the front door, then go to a department store, buy them where they’re mass produced in a Third World factory. You want quality? You want something locally made? You want something unique? Then don’t look for what you think of as “perfection” and just like the ones over all the neighbours’ doors.

Remember that in The Pictorial Key to the Tarot Waite says that he exhibits his pentacles like trophies. So did he view them as examples of his work, as finished products? Or as trophies, as bragging rights? I think Waite refers to the latter, so I would take it to mean that he does not view this card so much in the light of actual physical work. Funny, as all other indications of the card itself speaks of physical work to me. So I wonder if Waite and Colman Smith were on the same page here.

Five of the eight pentacles are actually hung from the post on the far right of the card’s image. And unique to Pamela Colman Smith’s depictions, the grain and texture of the wood is explicitly drawn. You can see the ridges of the bark, and the whorls of knots. It may just underline the crudeness of the craftsman’s makeshift surroundings, like he’s working out of his backyard shed or under a tree. But it is so specific that I tend to think that it must be a deliberate choice. I found some interesting suggestions while searching online, when I happened across a book excerpt of Fiebig and Burger’s new book. First, it was suggested, the rings stand for slow and gradual growth. The knotholes where branches used to be show age rings, indicating the slow and gradual growth of the tree. It represents also the figure’s slow and gradual mastery of his craft. But what else do they represent? They show that once there were branches there, that they’ve been pruned or sawed off. The craftsman’s efforts are singular. Literally no “branching off”, his attention is on mastering his skill. He’s pruned off extraneous distractions.

In the distance behind this scene is a far-off village or town. The craftsman is at some remove from it, perhaps to better hone his craft without distractions? But a road leads the way. However, note the horizontal lines. Another stage card. But in this case I like the term “separation card” per Isabel Kliegman; suggesting a deliberate distancing or separating of oneself from the rest of the world. Rachel Pollack suggested:

Pollack said:
[…]we see the apprentice lost in his task. And yet work also needs to be related to the outside world. However much we follow our standards and instincts or seek our own development the work we do lacks meaning if it does not serve the community. Therefore, behind his shop - though far away - stands a city, with a yellow road (yellow for mental action) leading to and from the workshop.

My Interpretations
Despite Waite’s assertion that this card shows “trophies”, I still tend to view the Eight of Pentacles as a card of work, of learning or mastering a craft. But it isn’t about churning them out, it shows someone who derives pride and pleasure from his skill and his finished product. With meticulous work, careful attention to detail, dedication to the process and the unhurried patience to work at it, there is great potential here.

In a reading I would definitely take it as a positive sign for those concerned with learning a new skill, going back to school, or starting out in a new field. If a question is about starting a new venture, perhaps about turning an existing interest or talent into a money-making opportunity, it bodes well. As long as you are willing to invest the time and the effort.