Why I'll still take a modern Grimaud deck over the others.....

The only reason Grimaud is used in most books was because it was the top Marseille deck for the 20th century. There's little reason to believe that CBD or some other new deck couldn't eclipse its popularity and book use in this century.

But the only reason I doubt a new TdM deck will take Grimaud's place in books is that Grimaud had the fortune of being commercialized by a large company and rapidly promoted. Reconstructed and facsimile decks are of more limited interest to Tarot enthusiasts and often more expensive, while anyone in Europe with even only a passing interest in Tarot can grab a Grimaud easily.

I'm one who believes the fewer colours may be less confusing but are detrimental. Green is a warmer colour than blue. The use of green as well as other colour details adds dimension, depth, and dynamic.

I compare the Ace of Coins which is nothing more than a flat yellow disc with details, whereas CBD adds small touches of red and other decks of red and white to make it resembled a jewelled coin.

Being the original top popular deck doesn't mean it's more exciting or more worthy of longevity. Would that other decks had the backing of large scale distributors behind them, the scales would undoubtedly tip.

DeToX said:

The Blues are quite dark in the 1970s Grimauds onwards if I'm not mistaken. It's kinda hard to view some of the details in the blue areas IMO. It would take even an 80s Grimaud several more decades from now to really fade I would have thought.

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I must agree about the blues in the Grimaud, it is simply too dark. Also I find the use of the flesh color for things other than flesh to be esthetically displeasing. Nevertheless I do like the Grimaud, and I have an early '70s one with the ultra-thick cardstock which I'm very fond of.

Aeric said:

......But the only reason I doubt a new TdM deck will take Grimaud's place in books is that Grimaud had the fortune of being commercialized by a large company and rapidly promoted. Reconstructed and facsimile decks are of more limited interest to Tarot enthusiasts and often more expensive, while anyone in Europe with even only a passing interest in Tarot can grab a Grimaud easily......

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That may be true in Europe, but an unused Grimaud is almost impossible to buy within the US. The situation may be similar in Asia, New Zealand, and Australia. I ordered my most recent one from a dealer in France.

Some good insight here and I like it. Indeed everyone has hit the nail on the head as it defys logic to have more colourful or historically accurate TDM decks in your possession and still go to the Grimaud. I collect TDM and I have loads of them, but really only use three (Grimaud, Fournier and Jodo) of them.

The Grimaud has a certain mystique that I cannot quite explain. I am relieved to find that I am not the only one who still loves it.


Freddie

Grimaud TDM is more expensive than both Lo Scarabeo and U.S. Games. A new Grimaud is generally about 25 pounds. It is rare to see a new pack in any shop here in the UK. Grimaud is the deck that kept Tarot use going until the Rider deck broke through in the 1960's. This is why I put it at the top with Rider and Thoth. These three decks reign surpreme and made Tarot what it is today. I am not too crazy about the other two decks, but I respect them as they contributed to the success of Tarot.



Freddie

Thanks cuz!

So it's really the commercial aspect you respect to put it at the top, its longevity in sustaining the Tarot market. There's nothing wrong with that, but I'd point out that if only a different version had made it to market, it'd be the one you'd be praising. There'd be no point comparing the qualities of the Grimaud over a differently visioned deck, like C-J or CBD.

Somebody made a marketing decision one day that other people ran with, and because of it, you favour one deck over others. The ones that just happened to be produced later than Grimaud never got the chance to prove their worth in the popular domain for being eclipsed by it.

Aeric said:

So it's really the commercial aspect you respect to put it at the top, its longevity in sustaining the Tarot market. There's nothing wrong with that, but I'd point out that if only a different version had made it to market, it'd be the one you'd be praising. There'd be no point comparing the qualities of the Grimaud over a differently visioned deck, like C-J or CBD.

Somebody made a marketing decision one day that other people ran with, and because of it, you favour one deck over others. The ones that just happened to be produced later than Grimaud never got the chance to prove their worth in the popular domain for being eclipsed by it.

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There's nothing wrong with cynicism, but your reasoning is not necessarily valid. It's playing statistics. Marketing is only one factor affecting the popularity of an item.

I drive a Chevy pickup truck. It may be the most popular small truck for any or all of several reasons, among them marketing. However, I don't think an item that expensive can survive on marketing alone, because the class of people who use small trucks generally are more interested in reliability, durability, and overall practicality, and I believe it's popularity attests to this. Most farmers that I know don't give a fig for the trendiness of an item, but they are sensitive to quality, as this is advantageous to their livelihood. It is indeed the nature of the target market that is responsible for its popularity happening to reflect quality, but the fact remains that it really is evidence of quality. As clever as the Chevy marketing is, I don't believe that the absurd macho factor in TV ads is really effective within its true target market. (To a farmer, "built like a rock" brings to mind one of the enemies of agriculture.) As I have through the years owned Dodge and Ford trucks, I can honestly say that my Chevy is the best truck that I have owned. It is now 14 years old and runs like new.

I'm not sure how the analogy carries through for the Grimaud TdM compared to others. Maybe it tells fortunes better than other TdMs. It certainly has superb card stock and careful printing, not the sloppy crap that passes for printing in some of the RWS decks, not to mention smelly plasticky card stock.

I'm not arguing, and I certainly don't know the intricacies of European marketing. I'm just suggesting that there may be other, non trivial factors contributing to an item's popularity. I.e., popularity may be indicative of quality as well as clever marketing. Indeed, producing a quality product may itself be a marketing strategy.

I find it hard to look at the Grimaud with fresh eyes now. I feel I have seen it too much, a sensation I don't get with the RWS or the Thoth or indeed the 1JJ Swiss. I can understand people's love of it and envy them a little because for me it feels flat. Is the colouring authentic? Even if it was, I have those decks which I love for their historical accuracy and those decks which I read easily with. The Grimaud is neither for me. But then at different times I want different things.

I would contest a few things. I think it was the Marseilles deck used in books in Europe up to a certain time. Certainly most 80s books had it.

I'm bemused by the blond hair comment. Is that a reference to other historical decks or to the Robin Wood? Then the religious beliefs; none of the historical ones hold an excessive religious belief. But they all have a Pope and Judgment. I think the 1JJ is less religious than the Grimaud Marseilles.

In fact, it is all quite subjective. The great trinity for me is most definitely; RWS, Thoth and 1JJ Swiss. But that's me, with a late 70s/early 80s perspective.

I always enjoy people's defence of the Grimaud but I have genuinely grown tired of it. I have grown tired of other decks and invariably come back to them, but this one has never beckoned me back again.

May I say again that I do not dislike any of the other newer published TDM decks that I have bought within the last year. I am definitely not saying that the Grimaud is better, because it clearly is not. It is however a classic Tarot deck that one might still be prefer over the newer prettier products in the same Conver pattern....this is what I was trying to convey. Just a choice

I feel the same way about my music as I do my Tarot decks...less is more. I adhere to the DYI code of all I need are the basic building blocks to build a mansion on. It is just a choice and not a judgement on other guitars/decks.


Back to my Jodo


Freddie