"House of God" = Meteorites?

le pendu

I posted this in the thread on Tower, but thought I would start a new thread on it as I would really like feedback/insights/leads on it. Does the name "La Maison Dieu" refer to the circles in the sky found on the TdM and the Vieville? Is this card describing meteorites?

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Fundamentally, it's a connection between the words Bethel and Baetyl.

Definition of "Bethel" from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethel_(god)

Bethel meaning in Hebrew and Phoenician and Aramaic 'House of El' or 'House of God' is seemingly the name of a god or an aspect of a god in some ancient middle-eastern texts dating to the Assyrian, Persian and Hellenistic periods.

and

Sanchuniathon mentions the god Baitylos as a brother of the gods El and Dagon. He later says that the god Sky devised the baitylia, having contrived to put life into stones. The reference would seem to be to Bethels in the plural, that is to many stones like the stone in the Israelite city of Bethel which served a housing for God in Israelite belief.

So "Bethel" means "House of God" in Hebrew, seemingly translated as "Baetyl" and "Baitylos" or "Baitylus" or "Baitylia" or "Bætulia", and all indicate a type of magical stone.

From a page on the word Baetyl:
http://www.livius.org/ba-bd/baetyl/baetyl.html
Baetyl (or Baitylos, Beth-El): a venerated stone, believed to be in some sense the "house of god".
All over the ancient Levant, we find the cultic practice of venerating stones that were believed to be the house of a particular god, a Beth-El.

We're beginning to see a pattern here of stone(s) that are worshiped, containing the essence of God. Now another connection:

First line of definition for "Baetylus" on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baetylus
Baetylus or Bethel is a semitic word denoting a sacred stone, which was supposed to be endowed with life. These fetish objects of worship were meteoric stones, which were dedicated to the gods or revered as symbols of the gods themselves (Pliny, Nat. Hist. xvii. 9; Photius, Cod. 242).

From Wikipedia for "Meteorite"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite
A meteorite is a small extraterrestrial body that impacts the Earth's surface. While in space these bodies are called meteoroids, and they are called meteors after entering Earth's atmosphere but before reaching the surface. These are small asteroids, approximately boulder-sized or less. When it enters the atmosphere, air drag and friction cause the body to heat up and emit light, thus forming a fireball or shooting star.

From a site about meteorites:
http://www.haberer-meteorite.de/english/Culture and religion.htm
Even in the monotheistic religions of judäo-christian tradition traces of the old meteorite cults can be found. In hebrew language, the stones fallen from the sky are called Bethel (hebr. "House of God"). In the old testament it is reported, how Jakob, the tribe father of the Israelites, had his vision of the sky ladder, when he had fallen asleep in the desert with his head placed on such a Bethel-stone. According to the story after this he erected a temple around the stone, of which today unfortunately no more traces can be found.

From the Theosophical Society's page:
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/etgloss/ba-be.htm
Betylos, Baetylus (Latin) [from Greek baitylos meteoric stone] Also betylus, baetyl, betyles. In Classical antiquity a stone, either natural or artificially shaped, venerated as of divine origin, or as a symbol of divinity. There were a number of these sacred stones in Greece, the most famous being the one on the omphalos at Delphi. Likewise there were the so-called animated or oracular stones. "Strabo, Pliny, Helancius [Hellanicus] -- all speak of the electrical, or electro-magnetic power of the betyli. They were worshipped in the remotest antiquity in Egypt and Samothrace, as magnetic stones, 'containing souls which had fallen from heaven'; and the priests of Cybele wore a small betylos on their bodies" (IU 1:332). In Persia they were called oitzoe; but their origin was of far greater antiquity, for "Lemuria, Atlantis and her giants, and the earliest races of the Fifth Root-Race had all a hand in these betyles, lithoi, and 'magic' stones in general" (SD 2:346n). See also OPHITES; ROCKING-STONES

Quote from a odd website here:
http://www.quantavolution.org/vol_09/gods_fire_03.htm
The Greek word for Bethel was Baetyli, meaning a Jovian thunderbolt. Baetyls are sacred thunderstones or meteorites carried by the holy litters or arks of various Bedouin tribes.

If this is true, then we can bring "Thunderbolt" into the discussion as well.

From a site about prehistoric meteorites:
http://www.jjkent.com/articles/China-prehistoric-meteorites.htm
In prehistoric times meteorites were quite naturally supposed to possess a special sanctity, and were indeed regarded as animated by the very essence of some divinity. The name baetylus, given to these stones by Greeks and Romans, is derived from the Hebrew (bethel) or "house of God," a term indicating clearly enough the belief held by the ancient Hebrews in regard to meteorites, or supposed meteorites. However, long before this designation had reached the Greeks, certain meteorites had been accorded a peculiar reverence, and even worship. One of these was a black stone, called the Omphalos of Delphi. This was said to be the stone given by Rhea to Kronos when she substituted a stone for her offspring Zeus, to save him from being devoured by his father, Kronos. Zeus himself (or Kronos) threw it down to the Earth and the spot where it struck was supposed to be the centre of the Earth, hence the name Omphalos, or "navel-stone."

A little more about Sanchuniathon of Berytus mentioned in my first Wikipedia quote above on "Bethel", from this website:
http://phoenicia.org/theomythology.html
Sanchuniathon of Berytus (Beirut) or Sakkun-yathon in Phoenician means "the god Sakkun has given." He was an ancient Phoenician sage, priest and writer. He lived before the Trojan times. Judging from the fragments of the Phoenician History, Sanchuniathon appears to have been a contemporary of Semiramis, the Queen of Assyria, the wife of Ninus, with whom she founded Nineveh 2,000 BC. However, some believe that Sanchuniathon was a contemporary of Gideon 1339 BC without any proof. His book goes back into fabled antiquity. Sanchuniathon, like Vgasa in India, is said to have been a compiler of extremely ancient theogonic and historical documents that had been transmitted to him either by oral tradition or in writing. Sanchuniathon derived the sacred lore from the mystic inscriptions on the nfjawtis (probably hammanim, "sun pillars,"1) which stood in Phoenician temples. Porphyry of Tyre says that Sanchuniathon wrote a history of the Jews, based on information derived from Hierombal (i.e. Jeruba'al), a priest of the god Jevo (i.e. Yahveh). He dedicated it to Abelbal or Abibal, king of Berytus. The story was thought to be fictional because of its reference to Berytus; however, excavation in Berytus in recent years prove that the city maybe older than Byblos that has cultural tradition to 8,000 BC. His Phoenician History may be regarded as one of the most authentic memorials of the events which took place before the Flood. It begins with a legendary cosmogony and relates to how the first two mortals were begotten by the Wind (Spirit) and his wife Baau (Darkness). It refers to the Fall, the production of fire, the invention of huts and clothing, the origin of the arts of agriculture, hunting, fishing and navigation, and the beginnings of human civilization. Sanchuniathon gives a curious account of the descendants of the line of Cain. His history of the descendants of the line of Seth reads like the record in Genesis.

So I'm not sure what to make of all of this.. if anything.

Let's look at XVI from the Jacques Vieville and Jean Dodal tarots:

16.jpg
XVI-web-bas.jpg


Is it possible that the name "La Maison Dieu" is a literal translation of "Bethel"?

If so, what is the Bethel being depicted? Is it perhaps a reference not to the actual tower itself, but a reference to meteorites?

And if meteorites, is it a reference to the large flaming object in the upper portion of the cards? Or is it to the circular objects along the side? Or Both?

And what of the "Animated Stones", are these just another name, or is there something extra-magical happening?

Is the image in the Vieville a picture of Jacob and his goats, and the Bethel shown as a way to signify Jacob?

And what of the tower? I can't find any connection between Bethel and a tower. So why show the tower at all?

Before starting this tread, I did a search to see if Bethel or Baetyl had been mentioned before.. I found this post earlier in the thread:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=21550
Rusty Neon said:
I personally favour the Tower of Babel interpretation.

Alternate speculation by Marcel Picard:

(1) Genesis, Ch. 28, verses 11 to 19: The stone erected by Jacob which he called Bethel (which means "House of God" in Hebrew)

I'm not sure what Marcel Picard says, so if anyone has any information on that I would appreciate learning about it.

best,
robert
 

baba-prague

It's pretty convincing on the face of it Robert - how interesting.
Right now I only have the web, but there is a good site here:
http://www.serve.com/wh6ef/comets/meteors/showers/leonidancient.html

it includes these early accounts of spectacular meteor storms such as this one in 1366:

1366: The Portuguese text Cronicas dos reis de Portugal (1600) records that on the morning of October 23 "there was in the heavens a movement of stars, such as men never before saw or heard of. From midnight onward, all the stars moved from the east to the west; and after being together, they began to move, some in one direction, and others in another. And afterward they fell from the sky in such numbers, and so thickly together, that as they descended low in the air, they seemed large and fiery, and the sky and the air seemed to be in flames, and even the earth appeared as if ready to take fire. Those who saw it were filled with such great fear and dismay, that they were astounded, imagining they were all dead men, and that the end of the world had come."


There is also an account by "muslim historians" that may be relevant.

So - if you something like this was so terrifying that it was seen at the time as the "end of the world" might it not go down in history as this sort of iconic representation of catastrophe? It's a fascinating thought.
 

kwaw

Hi Pendu,

Unfortunatley I can't find my notes on this at the moment, however if you care to do a search of TarotL I am pretty sure both myself and Michael Hurst [and others] have discussed this connection on that forum on several occassions over the last several years.

Kwaw
 

baba-prague

This is interesting too - "These signs forerun the death or fall of kings." - the crown being blown off the top of the tower could possibly signify this fall of kings. (I hesitate to go as far as to suggest that the other image is a withered bay tree - and I've no idea where Shakespeare got this association with bay trees - I wonder how old that is - is it Biblical?)

Maybe this is getting to be a bit of a stretch though but meteor showers do seem to be seen as portents of disaster in much folk belief.

The bay trees in our country are all wither'd,
And meteors fright the fixed stars of heaven;
The pale-fac'd moon looks bloody on the earth
And lean-look'd prophets whisper fearful change;
Rich men look sad, and ruffians dance and leap,
The one in fear to lose what they enjoy,
The other to enjoy by rage and war.
These signs forerun the death or fall of kings.
William Shakespeare; Richard II, Act II, Scene iv

By the way, the other thing that might just support this theory is the combination on these cards of a large flaming object and small stones - meteor showers usually come when comets approach the earth - so what we are seeing may be a depiction of this event - comet AND meteor shower.
 

le pendu

Thanks for the replies so far!

Baba - thanks for the links. I think that the connection between La Maison Dieu=Bethel=Meteorites is very interesting, especially if you consider the possibility (as I believe is true) that the titles on the TdM cards were added later. Does that imply that someone looked at the image and thought "Meteors"? Or the place "Bethel"? And who would have made that connection to think Meteors=Bethel=French translation as House of God? Does it give us any insight into the creators of the TdM?

Kwaw - I would love it if you could share any notes, if you find them please pass them along. When I discussed this with Michael a few months ago, he didn't mention the discussion on L-Tarot.

best,
robert
 

jmd

I do agree that le pendu brings rather useful and strong evidence to suggest that there is very much some kind of Bætyl (by whatever transliteration) connection with this card.

What is fascinating to me at least is the manner in which perhaps various depictions have merged.

For example, the representation of the Tower on Amiens Cathedral, pre-dating the 1366 account mentioned by baba-prague, has no meteors or equivalent of any kind, but rather connects to a pseudo-infancy gospel (mentioned in other threads).

The Vieville deck seems to utilise cards XVI, XVII, and XVIII (all of course un-named) to depict what at least seems to be a sequence of annunciations of the birth of Jesus (to, respectively, the shepherds, to the wise men from the east, and to Anne (?)). Here, of course, the 'opening' of the sky, especially to the Shepherd(s), becomes importantly depicted with 'Baetyls'.

Another interesting element (though later than our considered cards, so very likely a corruption of detail) are some early 1800 Besançon decks that depict the Tower without bætyls (without 'stones from heaven') - see for example the Renault and Jean Jerger Besançon decks, page 171 and 169 respectively of Schweizer Spielkarten:2. Though suspecting a deterioration, it may also be simply a harking back to a different tradition of cards that took its imagery more as a reflection from the pseudo-infancy gospel, uninfluenced by the Vieville-like 'addition' or alternative.

So basically, it seems to me that there may be various influences:
On the one hand the clear image related to the pseudo-infancy gospel as also depicted on Amiens (image follows):
P1000049_JPG.jpg


In addition, there is the scene such as the Vieville that appears to depict the opening of the heavens in annoucing the birth of Jesus;

Then there are the linguistic connections between 'stone-from-heaven' and 'house of god' via the term 'Baetyl'​
All in all, it may perhaps be, then, that the variety of depictions from both Vieville and Marseille-type became merged via a simpler understanding that desctruction occurs at the will of God, and that, oft, via the means of stones from heaven. False house of gods (the Amiens-type depiction) also could easily link.

Perhaps, of course, I am reading too much into it...
 

HudsonGray

As for stuff in the sky, I think you can rule out comets. All the comet depictions I've seen in art from the Middle Ages has a very different look to the flaming star/brightness, and they depict the tails differently than the image of what's hitting the tower crown. I can't remember seeing any illuminated manuscript art that strictly depicts meteorites, especially where the text talks about the things coming down to the earth.
 

jmd

Though I do not recall sources, I have seen various depictions (woodcuts and copies of hand-drawn mediæval documents) of not only comets, but meteorites falling in destructive forces upon villages, in various places.

Perhaps one useful source may be Pingré's Cometographie ou traité historique et théorique des comètes (1783, Paris) - an important book I have only at various times seen reference to, but never myself looked at. I had once read somewhere that there is are estimated 200 000 mediaeval manuscripts in various libraries that deal specifically with meteors and comets. If that is the case, than I am certain that amongst these will be many that have meteors depicted.

I am also pretty confident that some more historically oriented astrological books published over the last 50 years have included early representations of meteor showers (from China, India, North Africa and Europe, from memory). Some of these images show representations of meteors and comets in some manner connected in a way that is not too dissimilar to what may be represented on XVI (without the building or human beings).

Some of these, by the way, talk of the manner in which the Moon may be affected visually by the passage of a comet, crowned by 'stars' before their fall to earth (ie, meteors).

As a matter of interest, if Seneca, in his Naturales quaestiones, knew that Apollonius thought that the Chaldeans considered that Comets were 'planet-like' with orbital status, then the study and views of both comets and meteors would have continued to be considered of importance, and hence also their ongoing depictions, even if few have survived the ravages of time.

I realise that the following is later than we are talking, but again, what is interesting from this 1833 drawing is that the meteor that 'hits' has its 'flame' in a direction back towards its origin. It would not be beyond reasonable consideration to view that, as the origin of the meteors may be as though from a comet, the major flame of the hit section of the building has its 'flames' heading up towards its origin, and the streak of very fast descent be depicted a little 'thunder-bolt'-like.

leonids_1833.jpg


1833 image of leonids meteor shower​
 

jmd

PS: here is an image of possible historic merit to the topic at hand (just found it care of google - from this site):

fig8a.jpg


Mediaeval painting circa 1456​
 

baba-prague

jmd said:
I
The Vieville deck seems to utilise cards XVI, XVII, and XVIII (all of course un-named) to depict what at least seems to be a sequence of annunciations of the birth of Jesus (to, respectively, the shepherds, to the wise men from the east, and to Anne (?)). Here, of course, the 'opening' of the sky, especially to the Shepherd(s), becomes importantly depicted with 'Baetyls'....

Sorry, this may be a digression, but may as well throw it in here. I'd be careful of assuming that anything that shows sheep means "shepherd". There is a 1600 sgraffito here with a picture of a man under a tree with sheep gathered around (somewhat similar to the image Le Pendu shows above). It is the third in a series of pictures about Jonah (the middle one is unmistakable as it shows him being spat out of the whale) and is believed to show Jonah under the tree outside Nineveh, waiting for God's destruction of the city (which never came as God decided the people had made suitable atonement).

By the way, I am not suggesting that the tarot image is Jonah - he would seem a bit out of place here. Just cautioning some hesitation about making strong suppositions that depictions of sheep necessarily = the shepherds.

I'll try to fish out our photo and post it later, though strictly it's a bit irrelevant to the discussion at hand.