Tarot as pandering to fiction?

almalibrarian01

What she said. We don't all have to believe the same things. Nor would I give him a reading - unless he asked for one. He has every right to see it that way. I gather he wasn't trying to tell you to give up on it ?

No he wasn't, he just said it pandered to fiction, and he said something about life giving us a lot of options and that tarot "may or may not exist" in the grand scheme of things. It was honestly a little too airy-fairy for me and I think he may be a confused person himself... I find tarot to not be confusing but pretty enlightening, and it speaks of both mundane and spiritual matters in a clear way.

Even when I do readings that seem just like nonsense or don't make any sense to me, if I stay with it long enough I'm sure to get something out of it, or shed light on something I hadn't considered before. Tarot just urges us to reflect on things, and our feelings and thoughts; it sheds light on things we're maybe not even aware of at the time. It's an exercise in consciousness. :)
 

almalibrarian01

I definitely would not try to defend Tarot. The best thing you can do is give that person a reading. People are more likely to believe their own experiences and if your reading is on point then maybe they might be willing to open up to something new. If not, oh well, you did all that you could.

Same here, when I first started exploring tarot I was EXTREMELY skeptical, until a friend of mine did a reading for me that was so accurate it blew my mind for days after. After that I became a little obsessed. lol Since then it's been a long, beautiful, fun, sometimes frustrating journey with the tarot. :)
 

almalibrarian01

Some do live in fantasy worlds and on AT there is no exception from time to time in the exchanges themselves. Some have a hard time with reality or are holding onto an unrealistic hope or dream.

Both of you are right.

DND :)

Yeah I personally try to be REALLY careful to make sure I don't indulge in wishful thinking or unrealistic expectations. I prefer analysis but I also am very right-brained so I can't help but see the 'big picture' in things all the time and I am very creative and always seeking patterns in life and events. So for me tarot is a way to bridge my right and left brain thinking, using both analysis and 'big picture' thinking.
 

Mythtaken

... So for me tarot is a way to bridge my right and left brain thinking, using both analysis and 'big picture' thinking.

Nicely expressed! I started exploring the cards when I felt as though my imagination weren't active enough. Even my dreams seemed limited and linear, and tarot just seemed like a good way to expand my imaginary horizons and improve my ability to visualize. It really has inspired me to open up to new possibilities, and my dreams are much more vivid and interesting now.

OP: So your friend thinks tarot encourages people to what, overindulge in fantasy in some unhealthy way? Taking leave of reality?

I can see the potential for that, but like everything else in life, we all have choices to make. Finding the right balance is part of interpreting meanings from the cards.
 

catschinwag

Hello,

The very brief way I explained tarot to my partner (who politely inquires but generally ignores) is that it's a tool used to connect to our sub-conscious mind. Think Rorschach test - when a psychologist asks "what do you see?" you are literally telling them what you see. Tarot takes it one step further and asks "what do you feel?" and based on those feelings, you then reflect on the situation(s) that those feelings evoke. Plus the majority of spread layouts essentially look at a particular life cycle (love, career etc - beginning, middle, resolution, end), much like how the major arcana is representative of a knowledge life cycle.

When trying to explain tarot + querent relationship, the tarot reader is the person who is guiding the querent on what the cards are stating, but oftentimes its the querent's involvement in reflection that determines the tarot's aptitude.
 

Nemia

What's wrong about pandering to fiction? Shakespeare, Jane Austen, Tolstoy and Goethe spent their lives pandering to fiction. Paul Auster does. Since when is it wrong to pander to fiction?

Our memories contain a lot of "natural fiction", re-arrangements, retrospective insights, little dramas and wrong memories - that's how our mind works. Every time we learn something new, it changes the way we see the past. We create our fictions, we are partial, why should that be wrong? It's impossible to be otherwise. Every researcher knows it and tries to neutralize his/her bias.

We prop up ourselves by fictions and half fictions. Our ability of making cohesive narratives from our splintered experiences makes us humans and helps us to function.

Does this friend of yours spurn literature, theater, historical research, any kind of metaphor or generalizing explanation?

I'm all for pandering to fiction. I'm for music, art, literature... and natural science uses narratives, too. Every hypothesis contains fictional elements, speculation, filling in the gaps of knowledge by imagination. Freud used narratives and fiction to understand how the mind works. Jung's theory thinks about the intimate connection between the fiction we grow up with and our psychological make-up.

Tarot uses visual clues filled with meaning through esoteric tradition on the one hand, through intuitive reaction to images on the other hand, to get into touch with our own inner lives and questions. It's a creative use of fiction in order to solve problems and see them from another angle.

I compare tarot (and other techniques) to the shield of Perseus. When he wanted to slay poor Gorgo Medusa, he couldn't look at her directly because her eyes would have turned him into stone. So he used his polished shield. It showed him her reflection, and he could slay her.

By not thinking directly about a problem or question but using the shield of tarot to see its reflection, we get a better view of the problem and can then tackle it.

Of course, the story of Perseus and the Gorgo Medusa is only fiction. It's just some poppycock people have chosen to tell each other for some 3000 or 4000 years. Yeah.

If your friend lives without any fiction at all in his life, I really really pity him.

I wouldn't defend tarot at all to him. I'd buy him an icecream to comfort him for life in a fiction-less world.
 

G6

What's wrong about pandering to fiction? Shakespeare, Jane Austen, Tolstoy and Goethe spent their lives pandering to fiction. Paul Auster does. Since when is it wrong to pander to fiction?

Our memories contain a lot of "natural fiction", re-arrangements, retrospective insights, little dramas and wrong memories - that's how our mind works. Every time we learn something new, it changes the way we see the past. We create our fictions, we are partial, why should that be wrong? It's impossible to be otherwise. Every researcher knows it and tries to neutralize his/her bias.

We prop up ourselves by fictions and half fictions. Our ability of making cohesive narratives from our splintered experiences makes us humans and helps us to function.

Does this friend of yours spurn literature, theater, historical research, any kind of metaphor or generalizing explanation?

I'm all for pandering to fiction. I'm for music, art, literature... and natural science uses narratives, too. Every hypothesis contains fictional elements, speculation, filling in the gaps of knowledge by imagination. Freud used narratives and fiction to understand how the mind works. Jung's theory thinks about the intimate connection between the fiction we grow up with and our psychological make-up.

Tarot uses visual clues filled with meaning through esoteric tradition on the one hand, through intuitive reaction to images on the other hand, to get into touch with our own inner lives and questions. It's a creative use of fiction in order to solve problems and see them from another angle.

I compare tarot (and other techniques) to the shield of Perseus. When he wanted to slay poor Gorgo Medusa, he couldn't look at her directly because her eyes would have turned him into stone. So he used his polished shield. It showed him her reflection, and he could slay her.

By not thinking directly about a problem or question but using the shield of tarot to see its reflection, we get a better view of the problem and can then tackle it.

Of course, the story of Perseus and the Gorgo Medusa is only fiction. It's just some poppycock people have chosen to tell each other for some 3000 or 4000 years. Yeah.

If your friend lives without any fiction at all in his life, I really really pity him.

I wouldn't defend tarot at all to him. I'd buy him an icecream to comfort him for life in a fiction-less world.

Too funny. šŸ˜‚ Yes, does non-fiction exist?
 

Nemia

No, I don't think so. ;-)
 

Alta

What's wrong about pandering to fiction? Shakespeare, Jane Austen, Tolstoy and Goethe spent their lives pandering to fiction. Paul Auster does. Since when is it wrong to pander to fiction?

Our memories contain a lot of "natural fiction", re-arrangements, retrospective insights, little dramas and wrong memories - that's how our mind works. Every time we learn something new, it changes the way we see the past. We create our fictions, we are partial, why should that be wrong? It's impossible to be otherwise. Every researcher knows it and tries to neutralize his/her bias.

We prop up ourselves by fictions and half fictions. Our ability of making cohesive narratives from our splintered experiences makes us humans and helps us to function.

Does this friend of yours spurn literature, theater, historical research, any kind of metaphor or generalizing explanation?

I'm all for pandering to fiction. I'm for music, art, literature... and natural science uses narratives, too. Every hypothesis contains fictional elements, speculation, filling in the gaps of knowledge by imagination. Freud used narratives and fiction to understand how the mind works. Jung's theory thinks about the intimate connection between the fiction we grow up with and our psychological make-up.

Tarot uses visual clues filled with meaning through esoteric tradition on the one hand, through intuitive reaction to images on the other hand, to get into touch with our own inner lives and questions. It's a creative use of fiction in order to solve problems and see them from another angle.

I compare tarot (and other techniques) to the shield of Perseus. When he wanted to slay poor Gorgo Medusa, he couldn't look at her directly because her eyes would have turned him into stone. So he used his polished shield. It showed him her reflection, and he could slay her.

By not thinking directly about a problem or question but using the shield of tarot to see its reflection, we get a better view of the problem and can then tackle it.

Of course, the story of Perseus and the Gorgo Medusa is only fiction. It's just some poppycock people have chosen to tell each other for some 3000 or 4000 years. Yeah.

If your friend lives without any fiction at all in his life, I really really pity him.

I wouldn't defend tarot at all to him. I'd buy him an icecream to comfort him for life in a fiction-less world.
Wow Nemia, that is so perfect.

Just my own comment on the topic in general and a personal reflection on Nemia's post: as tarot readers we have learned to think in symbols, and apply them to everyday life. Recently some daft woman climbed up into a huge construction crane and had to be rescued. One fellow worked his way up over two hours and brought her down. They spent a fair amount of time together and afterwards he was babbling to the news that he 'really liked her' and was 'going to ask her out'. As a tarot reader all I could think was: "The power of myth".
 

G6

Wow Nemia, that is so perfect.

Just my own comment on the topic in general and a personal reflection on Nemia's post: as tarot readers we have learned to think in symbols, and apply them to everyday life. Recently some daft woman climbed up into a huge construction crane and had to be rescued. One fellow worked his way up over two hours and brought her down. They spent a fair amount of time together and afterwards he was babbling to the news that he 'really liked her' and was 'going to ask her out'. As a tarot reader all I could think was: "The power of myth".

Exactly. Everyone views the world through their own unique "story", which could be labeled as "pandering to fiction" in everything we do. The incident you describe of the man rescuing the woman and falling in love is a perfect example. Many women believe that story, and will setup similar, although maybe not as extreme, situations to be rescued by a man. Many men that also believe that story will happily oblige. Both are "pandering to fiction".