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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Force View Post
And to think, that the Page of Cups and The Queen of Cups are gazing into the Cup. The King and Knight of Cups are not.
I hadn't noticed that, but it's true. Maybe what's in the Cup is not a mystery to them. The Queens, for example, actually represent Binah (the Supernal Mother) in the Four Worlds.

Queen of Wands = Binah in Atziluth (the World of Emanation)
Queen of Cups = Binah in Briah (the World of Creation)
Queen of Swords = Binah in Yetzirah (the World of Formation)
Queen of Pentacles = Binah in Assiyah (the World of Action)
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Originally Posted by LRichard View Post
Indeed, it sure looks like that's what it is. Ravenest needs to explain how a Host can be the Universal Androgyne.
A Host can be many things ... in this case (universal androgyne) it would appear to be a 'host of two elements'


http://hermetic.com/crowley/book-4/chap20.html

To continue from where I left off :

(perhaps this is the process of affirming it is an 'androgenous act)


TOUTO ESTI TO SPERMA MOU. HO PAT R ESTIN HO HUIOS DIA TO PNEUMA HAGION.
AUMGN. AUMGN. AUMGN.

He replaces the left-hand part of the Host.

[ The Consignatio and Commixto ]


The PRIESTESS extends the Lance-point with her left hand to receive the particle.

The PRIEST clasps the Cup in his left hand.

Together they depress the Lance-point in the Cup.


- Note together ... man and woman ... this is VERY different from the 'standard' Consignatio and Commixto. Yet I doubt Waite worked this formula (being more of the 'straight' catholic .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
A Host can be many things ... in this case (universal androgyne) it would appear to be a 'host of two elements'


http://hermetic.com/crowley/book-4/chap20.html
That's brilliant, actually. Taking the symbol of the Jesus-fish leaping out of the goblet and the general attitude of the Page, which might actually suggest leaning to consume... well, it's a very interesting way of portraying the Jesus-Holy Guardian Angel interacting with the Page of Malkuth. There may even be some veiled sexual symbolism there, perhaps even a suggestion of Death inside the cup. Hmmmmm...

ETA: Or was this already discussed and I missed it?
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Loaves and fishes ... was bread ... now fish.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Loaves and fishes ... was bread ... now fish.
And the " Fish ", symbol goes back before Christ, Most likly before the Gnostics

Fish - was one of Vishu's avatars, (incarnation), brought "Vedas", revealed to him the whole of scared knowledge
Fish - Vanuna rides, associated with cyclical birth or rebirth
Fish - life and fertility

Oh theres more if you want to look into it further
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Nommo


https://www.google.com.au/search?q=N...w=1092&bih=527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Force View Post
And to think, that the Page of Cups and The Queen of Cups are gazing into the Cup. The King and Knight of Cups are not.
This gets back to the original question and is worth further exploration which I don't have time to do right now - frustratingly.

Second, it's very interesting if we link in the UA here and the cup as the womb and the 'host' becomes the seed, the bird is the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God. As such this card is the conception of Jesus. It also relates to the whole of the Major Arcana which is based on polarities and the Fool's journey (World Soul). In fact is is said by Mathers (I think, will have to dig out source) that this is one of the most important cards in the deck so worthy of further exploration. The One becomes Two and from the Two proceed Many.

Crowley makes reference in the Strength card (I think don't have time to check) of the spirit of God in the form of an animal. In Christianity it is the Dove...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRichard View Post
. Of course, the problem with this view is that the Holy Spirit is the feminine God principle and should be receptive instead of projective.)
Problem ?

Are not all Sephiroth receptive AND projective ?

http://www.holyspiritinteractive.net.../pentecost.jpg

(note the title )
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Problem ?

Are not all Sephiroth receptive AND projective ?......
True. I wasn't thinking of that. This is obvious from either their roles in the creative process (especially Sephirot 2 through 9) and/or their Tree placement (Sephirot 1, 6, 9, and 10).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caridwen View Post
.....Second, it's very interesting if we link in the UA here and the cup as the womb and the 'host' becomes the seed, the bird is the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God. As such this card is the conception of Jesus.........
There is an entire book by Waite, The Hidden Church of the Holy Graal, which relates in one way or another to the Ace of Cups. It is primarily a study of the Eucharist, with a view to a mystical interpretation thereof.
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