trzes
Well ...
Gilded Reverie Lenormand
Well ...
cirom
Exactly 
Love it.....
Love it.....Tibor
The cards should be standard size (the same as the tarot of dreams) otherwise the details will be lost. Oh yes and we do like naked man on a horse. I don't think Le Fanu would have any problem with that either
starlightexp
I might be off on this one but I think in the GT the Rider is seen as a man when looking for people in the deck.
WolfDeca
I like the Tower, Birds and Storks a lot, and I want that Book. And I also like the fact that you have a carousel horse in your home!
The Rider reminds me of Natalie Dormer (who I think is gorgeous).
I'm not sure yet what to think about changing the Rider to a woman - I just started learning Lenormand 2 weeks ago so I don't think I'm entitled to a real opinion yet. (Still, I can always speculate.)Since you're talking about the cards needing to be big so people can see the details, I'm guessing you want them to also LOOK at the details and read with them, which is a pretty big deviation from the traditional idea that it's just the symbols that carry meaning and not the images. In that case many cards are not going to work with the traditional meaning anyway, and I don't see anything wrong with making a Rider that cannot carry the traditional meaning of 'energetic young man.'
One practical consideration: (I just learned) The Rider is the 'partner' card when reading for a man in a same-sex relationship. Your Rider obviously doesn't easily fill that task. Have you thought about which card could take that place? Taking the 'partner' card for a woman in a same-sex relationship and turning it into a man isn't all that doable, 'cause that's the Snake, which has a female court card assigned to it.
The Rider reminds me of Natalie Dormer (who I think is gorgeous).
I'm not sure yet what to think about changing the Rider to a woman - I just started learning Lenormand 2 weeks ago so I don't think I'm entitled to a real opinion yet. (Still, I can always speculate.
)Since you're talking about the cards needing to be big so people can see the details, I'm guessing you want them to also LOOK at the details and read with them, which is a pretty big deviation from the traditional idea that it's just the symbols that carry meaning and not the images. In that case many cards are not going to work with the traditional meaning anyway, and I don't see anything wrong with making a Rider that cannot carry the traditional meaning of 'energetic young man.'One practical consideration: (I just learned) The Rider is the 'partner' card when reading for a man in a same-sex relationship. Your Rider obviously doesn't easily fill that task. Have you thought about which card could take that place? Taking the 'partner' card for a woman in a same-sex relationship and turning it into a man isn't all that doable, 'cause that's the Snake, which has a female court card assigned to it.
starlightexp
Very good question. Ciro when you layout the GT how do YOU see the card?
cirom
Hmmm this an interesting point, I will have to think about it and consult with some experts who are advising me. Anything that seriously impacts the "readability" I would consider changing. Although I would think even a male rider would cause issue in some gender combinations. To further complicate things (or maybe resolve them) in this particular project, I am planning two additional cards. Two MAN and two WOMAN cards, specifically to be used when appropriate in a reading i.e. about or for a Gay couple.
There is also an overall issue to consider when making any such assessments which I think was summed up nicely by a comment someone posted on my FaceBook page.
"Lenormand wasn't meant to become a tradition . . it was a one-off deck that became a tradition only because other people painted their own versions of it"
The Lenormand "traditions" trace their origin more to the projects produced after the woman's death, by the publishers of the day associating their variations to the name and reputation of the woman still fresh in publics mind. So personally I'm finding the challenge to be not one of following tradition, but deciding which of the traditions (plural) is worth following and why.
So while I'm not advocating a creative free for all approach. Clearly the result has to be fundamentally recognizable and usable as a Lenormand as that is term is generally perceived to be. But I believe that still allows for reasonable creative license and wiggle room. Any rules that need to be followed have to have a justifiable rationale also, not just someones else's deviation along the way, because there are hundreds of such deviations.
There is also an overall issue to consider when making any such assessments which I think was summed up nicely by a comment someone posted on my FaceBook page.
"Lenormand wasn't meant to become a tradition . . it was a one-off deck that became a tradition only because other people painted their own versions of it"
The Lenormand "traditions" trace their origin more to the projects produced after the woman's death, by the publishers of the day associating their variations to the name and reputation of the woman still fresh in publics mind. So personally I'm finding the challenge to be not one of following tradition, but deciding which of the traditions (plural) is worth following and why.
So while I'm not advocating a creative free for all approach. Clearly the result has to be fundamentally recognizable and usable as a Lenormand as that is term is generally perceived to be. But I believe that still allows for reasonable creative license and wiggle room. Any rules that need to be followed have to have a justifiable rationale also, not just someones else's deviation along the way, because there are hundreds of such deviations.
starlightexp
By that statement ALL rules and meanings are up for grabs them. I think the fact that soooo many people are new to reading the system the rules help right now. Even with tarot you can get a book and for the most part the books give a standard type meaning to each card, then as you feel more comfortable reading you open up and find your own. But in order to get to that comfortable level you need to have a foundation and that, to me, is why so many people are talking about what things are traditionally. People LIKE having a shared foothold in a system to be able to share new ideas and meanings but without that common background there is nothing to speak to. The rider might as well mean a party of tomatoes and zucchinis is going to be under your table or it could mean that the sun is out and shining. It's that common tradition that is used as a jumping off point. On the FB forum I posted a pole and it was like 85% of people right now are doing their best to use a traditional system so cards going off a traditional system aren't going to be some people's happy place. Just like when writing you first learn to print before you start on cursive letters. Innovation is great to long time people who like to see something new come down the pipe, but the Lenormand explosion in the US and UK is just too new to have a "I want to break the mold" deck..heck the mold isn't even done cooling down let alone able to be broken yet. A deck like this could be very interesting but it would need a REAL good book to explain the new ways at looking at the cards and how it fits into Lenormand
cirom
I agree with your entirely, thats why I stated previously that "the results have to be recognizable and usable as a Lenormand". I think you have misintrepreted my intentions. I am not aiming to "go off" from a traditional system or break any mold, I merely wish to question whats worth sticking to and why and then to push the shape of the mold a little. Pretty much what every other deck has done to some degree. Otherwise there would only be one deck constantly republished in its exact form.
Just as with my tarot decks, I don't believe any of the changes I have made will drastically influence the usability of the deck. Howevers I will once again provide ample visual reference beforehand, so if people do consider I have ventured too far into the realm of your analogy of a "party of tomatoes and zucchini scenario", and they are unhappy with that, they are free to say thanks but no thanks. Especially as in all likelihood this particular deck will be a limited self published project, so it will hardly be a big deal in the wider scope of any Lenormand trends.
Nevertheless which tradition or system are you referring to as the mold that 85% of the respondants wanted to follow. The French, German or Belgium?? because I also asked on FB for feedback from an image of one card, shown in three different ways, and the one showing the traditional incorporation of a playing card insert was certainly NOT the most preferred option, so some people are clearly open to some variation. This is a genuine question by the way. It would be extremely helpful for me to know which system.Thanks.
Just as with my tarot decks, I don't believe any of the changes I have made will drastically influence the usability of the deck. Howevers I will once again provide ample visual reference beforehand, so if people do consider I have ventured too far into the realm of your analogy of a "party of tomatoes and zucchini scenario", and they are unhappy with that, they are free to say thanks but no thanks. Especially as in all likelihood this particular deck will be a limited self published project, so it will hardly be a big deal in the wider scope of any Lenormand trends.
Nevertheless which tradition or system are you referring to as the mold that 85% of the respondants wanted to follow. The French, German or Belgium?? because I also asked on FB for feedback from an image of one card, shown in three different ways, and the one showing the traditional incorporation of a playing card insert was certainly NOT the most preferred option, so some people are clearly open to some variation. This is a genuine question by the way. It would be extremely helpful for me to know which system.Thanks.
nicky
what role?
