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Elemental Dignities Study Group Discussion & Index Thread

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Xrysalida  Xrysalida is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwcarter View Post
Wasn't as difficult to find as I thought it would be - Celtic Cross and Elemental Dignities.

Rodney
This is great!
thanx Rodney
Top   #41
RaaD  RaaD is offline
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I rarely use ED method. However for those that are using only uprights i can recommend it. It is easy and also it gives you idea which card should be interpret in unpleasant light.

Please before you continue reading this post, bare in mind that the method i describe is what i like to use, but it is not necessary the right one for you.

So first you need to determine the catalizator. This could be the significator in your spread if you use such or simply to any position you can pull one or two additional card and the catalizator will be the prime card in the position:
For example if you got in the CC spread as something know position the king of pentacles and you pull additionally to him, lets say 3 of cups, this will show you a man who is steady, cultivated. He knows how to keep what he has and he does not jump to unproved propositions because he needs to be sure that whatever he invest in will bare fruits. Thats why he does not have society problems. Who does not want to have wealthy and secured friend ( king of pentacles, waken the 3 of cups) . If the 3 of cups was prime then that person has a lot of joy among his friends, because he is stable in what he has with no fear that someone will take it ( 3 of cups weakens the king of pentacles) .

So how to know how the elements interact with eachother?
the fire makes the air to increase its volume and warms it.
The air ( wind) makes the fire to run wild and uncontrolled.
In these two options the one of the elements making the other to expand and to become stronger.

The water imbues the earth and make the seeds to grow.
The earth navigates water like rivers and sort.
These 2 elements also supports eachother

The fire vaporize the water
The water extinguishes fire
The earth stops the wind with its mountains
The tornado savages the earth
These are the unfriendly combinations

The fire scorches the fruits of the earth but it can not damage the earth itself ( rocks and stones).
The earth constraint fire not to spread further.
The air makes waves on the water surfaces, but it can not damage it.
The water makes the air fresh but it does not interfer with its volume or direction.

If you have all the cards from one of the elements then the situation is as fallow

Fire - highly intense activity and passion. It can burn you however
Air - highly intense thoughts and logic. It can wipe you away from your true goal however.
Water - highly intense emotions. You can drawn yourself in them
Earth - super solid and stable. However you can be stucked on one place crating roots on your feet like a plant.
Top   #42
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Xrysalida  Xrysalida is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaaD View Post
I rarely use ED method. However for those that are using only uprights i can recommend it. It is easy and also it gives you idea which card should be interpret in unpleasant light.

Please before you continue reading this post, bare in mind that the method i describe is what i like to use, but it is not necessary the right one for you.

So first you need to determine the catalizator. This could be the significator in your spread if you use such or simply to any position you can pull one or two additional card and the catalizator will be the prime card in the position:
For example if you got in the CC spread as something know position the king of pentacles and you pull additionally to him, lets say 3 of cups, this will show you a man who is steady, cultivated. He knows how to keep what he has and he does not jump to unproved propositions because he needs to be sure that whatever he invest in will bare fruits. Thats why he dont like to socialize, because he has trust problems ( king of pentacles, waken the 3 of cups) . If the 3 of cups was prime then that person will have stability issues due too much developed social circle and sort ( 3 of cups weakens the king of pentacles) .

So how to know how the elements interact with eachother?
the fire makes the air to increase its volume and warms it.
The air ( wind) makes the fire to run wild and uncontrolled.
In these two options the one of the elements making the other to expand and to become stronger.

The water imbues the earth and make the seeds to grow.
The earth navigates water like rivers and sort.
These 2 elements also supports eachother

The fire vaporize the water
The water extinguishes fire
The earth stops the wind with its mountains
The tornado savages the earth
These are the unfriendly combinations

The fire scorches the fruits of the earth but it can not damage the earth itself ( rocks and stones).
The earth constraint fire not to spread further.
The air makes waves on the water surfaces, but it can not damage it.
The water makes the air fresh but it does not interfer with its volume or direction.

If you have all the cards from one of the elements then the situation is as fallow

Fire - highly intense activity and passion. It can burn you however
Air - highly intense thoughts and logic. It can wipe you away from your true goal however.
Water - highly intense emotions. You can drawn yourself in them
Earth - super solid and stable. However you can be stucked on one place crating roots on your feet like a plant.
Hi RaaD thank you for this, is helpful it gives me another way to look the ED's, I haven't decide yet which system to use, for the moment I am drawn to the G.D. and I feel that I need to understand the ED's interaction very well, maybe at the end of my search I will choose no to use it, who knows
Top   #43
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edited, double posted
Top   #44
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so...what I haven't understand still is the combinations where one elements supports and the other weakens
for example

Fire / Air / Earth
F+A are friendly so the Air card becomes strong and important, what about the other side though, the Earth is weakening the Air but not so much because the Air is
1. supported by Fire
2. the 2 flanking cards are supporting each other fire & air are friendly,
So what is teh importance of the Air card? do you read it as ill? or just weakened?

and does it matter if the flanking cards are Majors or Minors? do the Majors have more effect on the Minors?

but what about if the 2 flanking cards were not friendly?
like having

Fire / Earth / Water, would the earth card be less important since the flanking cards are not cooperate good?

Top   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrysalida View Post
so...what I haven't understand still is the combinations where one elements supports and the other weakens
for example

Fire / Air / Earth
F+A are friendly so the Air card becomes strong and important, what about the other side though, the Earth is weakening the Air but not so much because the Air is
1. supported by Fire
2. the 2 flanking cards are supporting each other fire & air are friendly,
So what is teh importance of the Air card? do you read it as ill? or just weakened?

and does it matter if the flanking cards are Majors or Minors? do the Majors have more effect on the Minors?

but what about if the 2 flanking cards were not friendly?
like having

Fire / Earth / Water, would the earth card be less important since the flanking cards are not cooperate good?

The catalizator i have spoke for. In this 3 card spreads if it is, past present future. For me the most important card is the middle one, the present, because the past created it and it creates the future. But the bigest reason is because it is now!!!!. So wherever you have came from ( the fire) made your present highly active ( fire and air are active friends) . And it will lead you to unstable active future ( air and earth are active enemies but earth and air are passive enemies) . Ofcourse this does not mean bad future. For example if it is 8 swords with 5 pentacles, it would mean to me that you are sick of fallowing other people footsteps and being struggling at all fronts. Now you are ready to do something. In your future you will still struggle ( 5 of pentacles) but not as much as it is suppose and you will actively make attempts to make your life better and easier.

P.S. one more thing. The root of the problem comes from the past because the fire is friendly with the air and neutral with the earth ( which makes it the friendliest card in the spread, or the turning point.) So in our case you have missed the chance to fully change the bad fortune. If instead of fire, the past was water then the root will be now in the present and you have an opportunities to change the things ( the most friendliest card is the one you should focus on).
Top   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrysalida View Post
so...what I haven't understand still is the combinations where one elements supports and the other weakens
for example

Fire / Air / Earth
F+A are friendly so the Air card becomes strong and important, what about the other side though, the Earth is weakening the Air but not so much because the Air is
1. supported by Fire
2. the 2 flanking cards are supporting each other fire & air are friendly,
So what is teh importance of the Air card? do you read it as ill? or just weakened?
Think about it in real life - you have one friend who builds you up and another who tears you down. It's not an either or effect. Both people and both cards have an effect. See EDSG #4 which is a similar combination AFW. You could look at it as taking two steps forward because of the supporting card and one step backward because of the weakening card (or vice versa).

In FAE, Air is the most important card because it's the central card. If you think of A as a balloon, the Fire is helping the balloon to fly upward while the Earth is gravity trying to pull the balloon back to the ground. Enough Fire and the balloon soars, but too much Earth and the balloon isn't going anywhere. Its not a hard and fast rule about what constitutes "enough" or "too much" - for me it's based more on the specific combination of cards than a belief that a higher rank outweighs a lower rank or that a Major outweighs a Minor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrysalida View Post
and does it matter if the flanking cards are Majors or Minors? do the Majors have more effect on the Minors?
For me, no the Majors don't hold any more importance from an elemental perspective than Minors do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrysalida View Post
but what about if the 2 flanking cards were not friendly?
like having

Fire / Earth / Water, would the earth card be less important since the flanking cards are not cooperate good?
By traditional GD rules, the flanking cards cancel each other out leaving the central card as the only one interpreted. I don't believe in wasting cards, so I don't have the flanking cards cancel each other out when they are not friendly. It's like having a person on each side of you fighting each other around you - it's highly unlikely that you're going to remain unscathed if they end up taking each other out.

Rodney
Top   #47
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Xrysalida  Xrysalida is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaaD View Post
The catalizator i have spoke for. In this 3 card spreads if it is, past present future. For me the most important card is the middle one, the present, because the past created it and it creates the future. But the bigest reason is because it is now!!!!. So wherever you have came from ( the fire) made your present highly active ( fire and air are active friends) . And it will lead you to unstable active future ( air and earth are active enemies but earth and air are passive enemies) .
Yes for me also the central card is the main one even if is not for Past present future,
you mean this because of the elemnt interaction I imagine? Like if it was Fire & Water it would be active but W&F would be passive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaaD View Post
Of course this does not mean bad future. For example if it is 8 swords with 5 pentacles, it would mean to me that you are sick of fallowing other people footsteps and being struggling at all fronts. Now you are ready to do something. In your future you will still struggle ( 5 of pentacles) but not as much as it is suppose and you will actively make attempts to make your life better and easier.

P.S. one more thing. The root of the problem comes from the past because the fire is friendly with the air and neutral with the earth ( which makes it the friendliest card in the spread, or the turning point.) So in our case you have missed the chance to fully change the bad fortune. If instead of fire, the past was water then the root will be now in the present and you have an opportunities to change the things ( the most friendliest card is the one you should focus on).
That s very interesting it gives solutions and advises thank you for this
very helpful!
Top   #48
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Xrysalida  Xrysalida is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwcarter View Post
Think about it in real life - you have one friend who builds you up and another who tears you down. It's not an either or effect. Both people and both cards have an effect. See EDSG #4 which is a similar combination AFW. You could look at it as taking two steps forward because of the supporting card and one step backward because of the weakening card (or vice versa).

In FAE, Air is the most important card because it's the central card. If you think of A as a balloon, the Fire is helping the balloon to fly upward while the Earth is gravity trying to pull the balloon back to the ground. Enough Fire and the balloon soars, but too much Earth and the balloon isn't going anywhere. Its not a hard and fast rule about what constitutes "enough" or "too much" - for me it's based more on the specific combination of cards than a belief that a higher rank outweighs a lower rank or that a Major outweighs a Minor.

For me, no the Majors don't hold any more importance from an elemental perspective than Minors do.
So, with ED's you don't have a reversed meaning, you just have a weakend menaning, it sounds and feels much better because the card is not taken to it's extreme,
what if it was F/A/W?
what does W to A? since it spends its time fighting with F? and its W's role if the F is blowing the A of the ground?is it just the reflection? a total passiveness from that card, it just mades an appearance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwcarter View Post
By traditional GD rules, the flanking cards cancel each other out leaving the central card as the only one interpreted. I don't believe in wasting cards, so I don't have the flanking cards cancel each other out when they are not friendly. It's like having a person on each side of you fighting each other around you - it's highly unlikely that you're going to remain unscathed if they end up taking each other out.

Rodney
Agree! is like "ignoring cards?" why do you draw them anw?!
Top   #49
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Xrysalida  Xrysalida is offline
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just to add: thank you both, it's nice that there two different approaches to see.
Top   #50




 

 


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