Lillie
Hello to all Thoth owners and Thoth lovers.
Recently I discovered that there had been many editions of this deck, all of them with subtle and not so subtle differences. I also found that I was very confused by all these differences.
I was perplexed.
In light of my puzzlement I have been trying to get together a list of all editions of this wonderful deck.
I thought this would be a useful resource for anyone trying to identify their cards, and anyone thinking of buying a particular deck.
Anyone who owns a Thoth deck is invited to list the following detials.
Even if your edition has already been listed I would still like to hear from you, perhaps you could confirm, or add to the details already listed.
This is the information I would like.
Date of deck
Publisher
Box design, it's colour etc.
Card Size.
Fronts, borders, their colour and decoration (if any), etc.
Backs, wether they have white borders or not.
Extra cards, hexagram, OTO cards, magi etc.
LWB, contents
ISBN.
And of course anything else you would like to tell.
Also any links to similar resources would also be welcome.
********************************************
The very first edition I am unlikely ever to see. It must look very strange.
"The first (and little known) printing was done privately by Carr Collins and his Texas based Sangreal Foundation...."
It appears that the designs were simply line drawings, in red and blue.
Thank you to Vincent for finding the quote.
*************************************************
The earliest colour edition was printed in Hong Kong by LLewellyn.
The box is shown here. Link provided by Cerulean.
http://www.llewellyn.com/history/event.php?id=230
Listed by Strange2
Date of deck: 1969
Publisher: Llewellyn Publications
Printed in: U.S.A
Box design: hard cardboard outer box - white on one side & copy of card back on other side, gold slipcase inner box
Card Size: 140 x 95 mm
Fronts: Light blue plain border with no design, no astrological symbols or Hebrew letters on bottom of Majors
Backs: No borders, design covers entire back of card
Extra cards: OTO card, no unicursal hexagram card
LWB, contents : No LWB (at least not in the deck I have)
ISBN: None
Rusty Neon also has these, with the difference that his are printed in Hong Kong instead of the USA.
He gives a very complete discription of the outer box in his post. See below.
*********************************************
In the 70s a very similar edition was 'distributed' by Weiser. These appear to be the ones pictured here.
www.themysticeye.com/pics/thothj.htm
Listed by Lillie
Date; Seller thought 74, but no date given on box.
Publisher; The box says 'distributed' by Weiser and printed in the USA. No publisher is mentioned by name.
Box. White outer box, with OTO design on front and Rose cross on back. 'Gold' inner box with 2 notches on front and back.
Card Size; 5.5 x 3.5 inches (14 x 95 cm)
Fronts; Borders are plain, pale blue, very variable in depth of colour. Title and number in blue. There are no hebrew letters, and no planetry symbols etc.
Some cards are very poor, washed out.
Backs; Usual rose cross, no borders.
Extra cards; no hexagram, no OTO card, No extra cards.
LWB; No LWB
ISBN; No ISBN.
***************************************************
The first US games edition seems to have been in 77, and this seems to be the start of the 'green decks'.
Listed by Strange2
Date of deck: 1977
Publisher: U.S. Games Systems, Inc.
Printed in: Belgium
Box design: White
Card Size: 140 x 95 mm
Fronts: Green border with design, astrological symbols and Hebrew letters on bottom of trumps
Backs: No borders, design covers entire back of card
Extra cards: OTO card, Red Unicursal Hexagram card
LWB, contents : 46 pages, by James Wasserman, plus two essays by Lady Frieda Harris with commentary and footnotes by Stuart R. Kaplan
ISBN: 0-913866-15-6 LWB
Cerulean also has this deck with an additional blank card as well as the hexagram and OTO cards.
He gives a complete discription of the writing on the box in his post. See below.
*******************************************************
Weiser seems to have published a very similar deck in both 78 and 83.
Listed by Emily
Date of deck - 1978
Publisher - Samuel Weiser Inc, York Beach, USA
Borders - decorated
Box Design - White with Ordo Templi Orientis on the front - very pale back design of cards on the back of box
Backs - no white borders
Extra cards - Black and red hexagram and Ordo Templi Orientis card
LWB - printed in USA - James Wasserman with Lady Frieda's essays and footnote my Stuart Kaplan
ISBN 0-87728-452-0
The booklet has two dates - 1978 and 1983. If I was to take a guess I would say my cards date from 1983 even though they have 1978 on the Ordo card.
I didn't buy these cards from new but 1983 seems to be right.
******************************************************
Listed by Lunakasha
Date of deck: 1978
Publisher: Weiser
Borders, their colour and decoration (if any): Green borders, cards also green
Box design, it's colour etc.: Green box, Two of Pentacles on the front
Backs, wether they have white borders or not.: Colorful rose cross design, no borders
Extra cards, hexagram, OTO cards, magi etc.: Unicursal Hexagram, red on black background; also a blank (white) card w/rose cross on back
LWB, contents: Includes commentary by Frieda Harris and Stuart Kaplan
ISBN: 0-87728-452-0 Price: $18.00
I purchased mine about three years ago; I believe that this edition is now OOP,
**************************************************
In the 80s cards with a grey patterned border were published by A G Muller.
I believe this was the first time that a pack contained the three alternative Magus cards, thouh only in the standard size deck.
A Finnish version of these was listed by Aure.
Date of deck: 1986
Language: Finnish
Publisher: Unio Mystica, Finland
printed in Belgium by A.G. Müller
Box design, it's colour etc. : Blue A.G. Müller box
Card Size: Regular size (similar to English A.G.Müller versions)
Fronts, borders, their colour and decoration (if any), etc.: See the answer above.
Backs, whether they have white borders or not.: white borders
Extra cards, hexagram, OTO cards, magi etc. : Two extra magi cards, no hexagram or OTO cards.
LWB, contents: Has no LWB
ISBN: 3-905021-88-9
**************************************************
The 90s saw the deck published again, in various sizes and by various publishers.
Listed by Strange2
Date of deck: 1996
Publisher: AGM AGMuller
Printed in: Switzerland
Box design: Dark Blue
Card Size: 140 x 95 mm
Fronts: Gray border with design, astrological symbols and Hebrew letters on bottom of trumps
Backs: White borders
Extra cards: OTO card, Rainbow Unicursal Hexagram card
LWB, contents : 41 pages, by "the Hermit", an excerpt from Aleister Crowley's original Book of Thoth
ISBN: 0-88079-469-0 Box, 3-905021-60-9 LWB
*********************************
A Finnish version of these cards was listed by Aure. Please note the grey Hexagram card.
Date of deck: 1996
Language: Finnish
Publisher: Unio Mystica, Finland
printed in Belgium by A.G. Müller
Box design, it's colour etc. : Blue A.G. Müller box
Card Size: Pocket size (similar to English A.G.Müller versions)
Fronts, borders, their colour and decoration (if any), etc.: See the answer above.
Backs, whether they have white borders or not.: white borders
Extra cards, hexagram, OTO cards, magi etc. : Grey hexagram card, OTO cards, no extra magus.
LWB, contents: Has no LWB
ISBN: 3-905219-19-0
**************************************************
Listed by Strange2
Date of deck: 1996
Publisher: U.S. Games Systems, Inc.
Printed in: Belgium
Box design: Lavendar
Card Size: 110 x 70 mm
Fronts: Gray border with design, astrological symbols and Hebrew letters on bottom of trumps
Backs: White borders
Extra cards: 2 extra Magus cards
LWB, contents : 46 pages, by James Wasserman, plus two essays by Lady Frieda Harris with commentary and footnotes by Stuart R. Kaplan
ISBN: 0-88079-308-2 Box & LWB
**************************************************
Listed by Strange2
Date of deck: 1997
Publisher: AGM AGMuller
Printed in: Switzerland
Box design: Dark Blue
Card Size: 89 x 58 mm
Fronts: Gray border with design, astrological symbols and Hebrew letters on bottom of trumps
Backs: White borders
Extra cards: OTO card, Rainbow Unicursal Hexagram card
LWB, contents : 43 pages, A Descriptive Essay by Aleister Crowley, edited by Frieda Harris with a foreward by Hymenaeus Beta
ISBN: 3-905219-06-9 Box & LWB
**************************************************
The deck is still being published in the 2000s and a new edition by Urania Verlags appears to be the latest.
***************************************************
Thank you to all the people mentioned above, and also to Rachelcat, Creative Fire, Diwha and Marion for their help.
If anyone would like to give the details of their deck, please do. Any more info will be edited into this list.
I am also interested in things like the exact date of publication for the first (slip case) weiser edition, and any subtle differences between this and the LLewellyn deck. Also differences between the 77 US Games edition and the 78/83 Weiser editions, (Green and white boxes)
Thank you to every one.
Lillie
Recently I discovered that there had been many editions of this deck, all of them with subtle and not so subtle differences. I also found that I was very confused by all these differences.
I was perplexed.
In light of my puzzlement I have been trying to get together a list of all editions of this wonderful deck.
I thought this would be a useful resource for anyone trying to identify their cards, and anyone thinking of buying a particular deck.
Anyone who owns a Thoth deck is invited to list the following detials.
Even if your edition has already been listed I would still like to hear from you, perhaps you could confirm, or add to the details already listed.
This is the information I would like.
Date of deck
Publisher
Box design, it's colour etc.
Card Size.
Fronts, borders, their colour and decoration (if any), etc.
Backs, wether they have white borders or not.
Extra cards, hexagram, OTO cards, magi etc.
LWB, contents
ISBN.
And of course anything else you would like to tell.
Also any links to similar resources would also be welcome.
********************************************
The very first edition I am unlikely ever to see. It must look very strange.
"The first (and little known) printing was done privately by Carr Collins and his Texas based Sangreal Foundation...."
It appears that the designs were simply line drawings, in red and blue.
Thank you to Vincent for finding the quote.
*************************************************
The earliest colour edition was printed in Hong Kong by LLewellyn.
The box is shown here. Link provided by Cerulean.
http://www.llewellyn.com/history/event.php?id=230
Listed by Strange2
Date of deck: 1969
Publisher: Llewellyn Publications
Printed in: U.S.A
Box design: hard cardboard outer box - white on one side & copy of card back on other side, gold slipcase inner box
Card Size: 140 x 95 mm
Fronts: Light blue plain border with no design, no astrological symbols or Hebrew letters on bottom of Majors
Backs: No borders, design covers entire back of card
Extra cards: OTO card, no unicursal hexagram card
LWB, contents : No LWB (at least not in the deck I have)
ISBN: None
Rusty Neon also has these, with the difference that his are printed in Hong Kong instead of the USA.
He gives a very complete discription of the outer box in his post. See below.
*********************************************
In the 70s a very similar edition was 'distributed' by Weiser. These appear to be the ones pictured here.
www.themysticeye.com/pics/thothj.htm
Listed by Lillie
Date; Seller thought 74, but no date given on box.
Publisher; The box says 'distributed' by Weiser and printed in the USA. No publisher is mentioned by name.
Box. White outer box, with OTO design on front and Rose cross on back. 'Gold' inner box with 2 notches on front and back.
Card Size; 5.5 x 3.5 inches (14 x 95 cm)
Fronts; Borders are plain, pale blue, very variable in depth of colour. Title and number in blue. There are no hebrew letters, and no planetry symbols etc.
Some cards are very poor, washed out.
Backs; Usual rose cross, no borders.
Extra cards; no hexagram, no OTO card, No extra cards.
LWB; No LWB
ISBN; No ISBN.
***************************************************
The first US games edition seems to have been in 77, and this seems to be the start of the 'green decks'.
Listed by Strange2
Date of deck: 1977
Publisher: U.S. Games Systems, Inc.
Printed in: Belgium
Box design: White
Card Size: 140 x 95 mm
Fronts: Green border with design, astrological symbols and Hebrew letters on bottom of trumps
Backs: No borders, design covers entire back of card
Extra cards: OTO card, Red Unicursal Hexagram card
LWB, contents : 46 pages, by James Wasserman, plus two essays by Lady Frieda Harris with commentary and footnotes by Stuart R. Kaplan
ISBN: 0-913866-15-6 LWB
Cerulean also has this deck with an additional blank card as well as the hexagram and OTO cards.
He gives a complete discription of the writing on the box in his post. See below.
*******************************************************
Weiser seems to have published a very similar deck in both 78 and 83.
Listed by Emily
Date of deck - 1978
Publisher - Samuel Weiser Inc, York Beach, USA
Borders - decorated
Box Design - White with Ordo Templi Orientis on the front - very pale back design of cards on the back of box
Backs - no white borders
Extra cards - Black and red hexagram and Ordo Templi Orientis card
LWB - printed in USA - James Wasserman with Lady Frieda's essays and footnote my Stuart Kaplan
ISBN 0-87728-452-0
The booklet has two dates - 1978 and 1983. If I was to take a guess I would say my cards date from 1983 even though they have 1978 on the Ordo card.
I didn't buy these cards from new but 1983 seems to be right.
******************************************************
Listed by Lunakasha
Date of deck: 1978
Publisher: Weiser
Borders, their colour and decoration (if any): Green borders, cards also green
Box design, it's colour etc.: Green box, Two of Pentacles on the front
Backs, wether they have white borders or not.: Colorful rose cross design, no borders
Extra cards, hexagram, OTO cards, magi etc.: Unicursal Hexagram, red on black background; also a blank (white) card w/rose cross on back
LWB, contents: Includes commentary by Frieda Harris and Stuart Kaplan
ISBN: 0-87728-452-0 Price: $18.00
I purchased mine about three years ago; I believe that this edition is now OOP,
**************************************************
In the 80s cards with a grey patterned border were published by A G Muller.
I believe this was the first time that a pack contained the three alternative Magus cards, thouh only in the standard size deck.
A Finnish version of these was listed by Aure.
Date of deck: 1986
Language: Finnish
Publisher: Unio Mystica, Finland
printed in Belgium by A.G. Müller
Box design, it's colour etc. : Blue A.G. Müller box
Card Size: Regular size (similar to English A.G.Müller versions)
Fronts, borders, their colour and decoration (if any), etc.: See the answer above.
Backs, whether they have white borders or not.: white borders
Extra cards, hexagram, OTO cards, magi etc. : Two extra magi cards, no hexagram or OTO cards.
LWB, contents: Has no LWB
ISBN: 3-905021-88-9
**************************************************
The 90s saw the deck published again, in various sizes and by various publishers.
Listed by Strange2
Date of deck: 1996
Publisher: AGM AGMuller
Printed in: Switzerland
Box design: Dark Blue
Card Size: 140 x 95 mm
Fronts: Gray border with design, astrological symbols and Hebrew letters on bottom of trumps
Backs: White borders
Extra cards: OTO card, Rainbow Unicursal Hexagram card
LWB, contents : 41 pages, by "the Hermit", an excerpt from Aleister Crowley's original Book of Thoth
ISBN: 0-88079-469-0 Box, 3-905021-60-9 LWB
*********************************
A Finnish version of these cards was listed by Aure. Please note the grey Hexagram card.
Date of deck: 1996
Language: Finnish
Publisher: Unio Mystica, Finland
printed in Belgium by A.G. Müller
Box design, it's colour etc. : Blue A.G. Müller box
Card Size: Pocket size (similar to English A.G.Müller versions)
Fronts, borders, their colour and decoration (if any), etc.: See the answer above.
Backs, whether they have white borders or not.: white borders
Extra cards, hexagram, OTO cards, magi etc. : Grey hexagram card, OTO cards, no extra magus.
LWB, contents: Has no LWB
ISBN: 3-905219-19-0
**************************************************
Listed by Strange2
Date of deck: 1996
Publisher: U.S. Games Systems, Inc.
Printed in: Belgium
Box design: Lavendar
Card Size: 110 x 70 mm
Fronts: Gray border with design, astrological symbols and Hebrew letters on bottom of trumps
Backs: White borders
Extra cards: 2 extra Magus cards
LWB, contents : 46 pages, by James Wasserman, plus two essays by Lady Frieda Harris with commentary and footnotes by Stuart R. Kaplan
ISBN: 0-88079-308-2 Box & LWB
**************************************************
Listed by Strange2
Date of deck: 1997
Publisher: AGM AGMuller
Printed in: Switzerland
Box design: Dark Blue
Card Size: 89 x 58 mm
Fronts: Gray border with design, astrological symbols and Hebrew letters on bottom of trumps
Backs: White borders
Extra cards: OTO card, Rainbow Unicursal Hexagram card
LWB, contents : 43 pages, A Descriptive Essay by Aleister Crowley, edited by Frieda Harris with a foreward by Hymenaeus Beta
ISBN: 3-905219-06-9 Box & LWB
**************************************************
The deck is still being published in the 2000s and a new edition by Urania Verlags appears to be the latest.
***************************************************
Thank you to all the people mentioned above, and also to Rachelcat, Creative Fire, Diwha and Marion for their help.
If anyone would like to give the details of their deck, please do. Any more info will be edited into this list.
I am also interested in things like the exact date of publication for the first (slip case) weiser edition, and any subtle differences between this and the LLewellyn deck. Also differences between the 77 US Games edition and the 78/83 Weiser editions, (Green and white boxes)
Thank you to every one.
Lillie