Best Thoth book to start with

Barleywine

The CC seems to have been introduced by W. B. Yeates. Waite describes it in PKT, but in any case he is abivalent about the divinatory use of Tarot, particularly the Trumps.

To some extent Waite de-Christianized Tarot compared to the historical decks of the time, such as TdM. Christianity, rightly understood, is not the bad guy anyhow. The problem is with the institutional form of it. As Waite writes in The Hermetic and Rosicrucian Mystery (1908):

...The difficulty which the [Latin] Rite has created and the inhibitions into which it has passed arise more especially not alone on the external side but from the fact that it has taken the great things of symbolism too generally for material facts. In this way, with all the sincerity which can be attached to its formal documents, produced for the most part by the process of growth, the Church Catholic of Latin Christianity has told the wrong story, though the elements which were placed in its hands are the right and true elements. I believe that the growth of sanctity within the Latin Church has been- under its deepest consideration-substantially hindered by the over-encrustation of the spirit with the literal aspect....​

" . . . over-encrustation of the spirit . . ." I like that! Score one for Mr. Waite. The institutional form is indeed the problem. I think it misses (or intentionally conceals) the point that most if not all of the "dying god" religions are based on the seasonal cycle of the Sun, which "dies" (or perhaps "commences dying") at the Autumnal Equinox and is "resurrected" at the Winter Solstice.

In another thread, Tehuti (mkg) stated that it may have been Florence Farr who introduced the Celtic Cross. Marcus Katz thought it was F. Leigh Gardner.
 

Miss Woo

I'm with you on the Christian taint of the RWS. I especially cringe at the "cross" arrangement of the "Ancient Celtic Method," which looks like a thinly veiled emulation of the Catholic "sign of the cross:" 3 = forehead, 4 = solar plexus, 5 = left shoulder, 6 = right shoulder. I much prefer Eden Gray's version, which looks like it follows the clockwise progress of the Sun in its diurnal motion: 3 = midnight (bottom); 4 = sunrise (left); 5 = noon (top) and 6 = sunset (right).

Yes, I think the Rider Waite has really strong Christian overtones. I wonder why some people don't see that?

Are you talking about the Celtic Cross? Yes, I use the Eden Gray version.
 

smw

It draws from the same well as the Book of Thoth but has none of the Thelemic innovations, such as swapping the Hebrew letters of the Star and the Emperor, nor the several renamed Major Arcana. Otherwise its qabalistic roots are also in the Golden Dawn tradition. Its usefulness is in laying out the conceptual landscape that both decks travel in company - before Crowley diverges. Case seems to be almost entirely in the Hebrew tradition, while the BoT casts a much more far-reaching net. Case is like "the classics" and Crowley is like "avant-garde."

ahh, I guess depending how you work that could be useful, looking at the shared background. I do not know the Thoth well enough yet to be able to see where all the differences are, so it gets muddly for me.
 

Aeon418

I recently found that he has made a blog a few months ago. I wonder what you think of his comments:
He's still missing the point. Which is funny in a way.

The sort of individualism which Henry Ho espouses is the fruit of the masculine Aeon of Osiris. This period saw the development and maturation of the individual ego out of the 'symbolically feminine' collective. Most healthy and balanced adults alive today are living examples of this process. As a species we already do ego really well. We're all individuals. There's no need for us to keep taking classes in Ego self assertion 101 as Mr Ho seems to suggest in his characteristically overly aggressive style. This is the hallmark of a fledgling individuality that is still trying to establish itself. Teenagers exhibit this kind of behaviour. That's why I initially thought the book was written by one. :bugeyed:

Symbolically this can be pictured as the masculine-point differentiating itself from the feminine-circle. In Aeonic terms it's the Aeon of Osiris replacing the Aeon of Isis.

The Aeon of Horus is the child of these two. It is a tertium quid. A union of two things to create a third thing. The masculine point developed through the Aeon of Osiris is united in 'right relation' with the feminine circle of Isis creating the glyph of Sun. It is an expression of the Self in a wider Context. This is what Ho seems to be missing with his OTT machismo view of dominance and breast beating self assertion. His view is all Point and no Circle.

In consciousness development terms the three Aeons represent.
Nephesh - Isis.
Ruach - Osiris.
Neshamah - Horus.
There's a distinct lack of Neshemah is Ho's vision of Thelema. In it's place is an idolized Ruach and a violent Nephesh. Where is the tertium quid Mr Ho?

Take for example this little bit of rampant ego worship.
Henry Ho said:
Any source of power in this current Aeon, even God, is not above our criticism and scrutiny. We put our own opinions of morality over that of any higher power, unlike our ancestors. That can be seen as a sign of maturity and that we are growing up mentally and spiritually. We can now make our own decisions. Even if we do make mistakes along the way, we are becoming higher powers in our own right rather than relying on the guidance of any perceived God that is external to ourselves.
Curious. It's ok up to a point, but he goes too far. Does Mr Ho place the HGA in this category? That last sentence in particular is a one way trip to the land of hyper inflated ego. K&C is practically impossible without the perception of an 'external something' an 'Other' that is not the self as commonly understood. This is what Crowley described as the Next Step for humanity and is another example of 'right relation' between the point and the circle.

It's odd that Ho repeatedly misquotes AL I:3. For his benefit I will quote it correctly.
Every man and every woman is a star.
There's a subtle point in this verse that is easy to miss. Every man and every woman is a star. But are these just stars in isolation? Individual points of light without context or connection? No, they are stars in the body of Nuit. We're all in this together. It's that greater 'something' that we all exist within. It's this same wider context that Ho misses. But that's what happens when you set your ego up as God.

Hopefully he will grow out of it. :livelong:
 

Aeon418

Case seems to be almost entirely in the Hebrew tradition, while the BoT casts a much more far-reaching net. Case is like "the classics" and Crowley is like "avant-garde."
This quote from The Book of Thoth touches on this.
Aleister Crowley said:
From the foregoing it will be clear that the Tarot illustrates, first of all, the Tree of Life in its universal aspect, and secondly, the particular comment illustrating that phase of the Tree of Life which is of peculiar interest to those persons charged with the guardianship of the human race at the particular moment of the production of any given authorised pack. It is therefore proper for those guardians to modify the aspect of the pack when it seems to them good to do so.
To me Case's approach to Tarot is from the Tree of Life in its universal aspect. This is what it shares with the Thoth Tarot. The difficulty seems to arise when you include the "particular comment illustrating that phase of the Tree of Life". On the surface this can often seem like a radical departure. But in reality it's just a modification or the same thing just viewed from a different perspective.

For example a death and resurrection motif may once have been a good way of expressing the letter Shin and the element Fire/Spirit. But a continual birthing motif is better and more accurate in a world of expanding consciousness and evolving views.
 

Barleywine

For example a death and resurrection motif may once have been a good way of expressing the letter Shin and the element Fire/Spirit. But a continual birthing motif is better and more accurate in a world of expanding consciousness and evolving views.

Excellent! Thanks for this, there has been a good deal of debate over the divinational meaning of Judgement (Shin) in the readings forum. I've never seen it as backward-looking, but rather more focused on renewal.
 

foolMoon

I am re-reading the DUQUETTE's book - Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot for the 2nd time, and finding it refreshing. First time when I read it was last year, but I did not understand much of it.

I have not used, read or studied Thoth for a year since the first time reading the book, and it has gone blank on me. Recently I decided to take it up again with totally empty frame of mind questioning anything and everything not clear, even if it sounded absurd or reckless.

When I came back to the Thoth after a year, started reading it again from page 1, I feel that I could understand it a lot better and clearer. I do find the Duquette's book excellent to start with, and fully recommend it.
 

Miss Woo

I am re-reading the DUQUETTE's book - Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot for the 2nd time, and finding it refreshing. First time when I read it was last year, but I did not understand much of it.

I have not used, read or studied Thoth for a year since the first time reading the book, and it has gone blank on me. Recently I decided to take it up again with totally empty frame of mind questioning anything and everything not clear, even if it sounded absurd or reckless.

When I came back to the Thoth after a year, started reading it again from page 1, I feel that I could understand it a lot better and clearer. I do find the Duquette's book excellent to start with, and fully recommend it.

Thank you! That's very reassuring because I have just bought it :)
 

3ill.yazi

Peeking in just to say thank you for this thread. I'm bookmarking it for when I decide to try the Thoth.