You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Cards with no people?
tarobones
titles
I noticed Lord of Swiftness and Lord of Sorrow titles mentioned. I don't see these in the RWS deck, so I am unsure where they come from. I also get confused by planetary associations because there are several systems out there. Guess I'm still too new..........is there a book for the RWS deck that has those titles? Thanks ahead of tme for any info..................Michael
I noticed Lord of Swiftness and Lord of Sorrow titles mentioned. I don't see these in the RWS deck, so I am unsure where they come from. I also get confused by planetary associations because there are several systems out there. Guess I'm still too new..........is there a book for the RWS deck that has those titles? Thanks ahead of tme for any info..................Michael
Charles Darnay
3 0f Swords and 8 of Wands
The Waite pack is divided into three worlds as clearly shown in the second divinatory method in Part III of the Pictorial Key.Read Highest World: I to VII,Second World,VIII to XIV,Third World,XV to XXI,presumably Malkuth.The Fool is in the middle(Scorpio) on one side.His red feather has been laid in the balance.He could easily lose his head if the law-suit goes against him as it certainly did in the unpublished W.B.Yeats-Florence Farr pack which preceeded the published version by AEW.Roger Parisious,who had it confirmed by George Yeats(1966) among others, gave this arrangement at the GD 100th Anniversary symposium.
Justice(Scorpio) has to be switched with Strength (Leo) not only to maintain the Zodical correspondence between Lion and the Lion but because it enables both of the upper worlds to be opened with the Visica Pisces,The Third world is likewise opened by the Visica Pisces,the one on the 2 of Pentacles correlates with the 15th Tarot Trump.Brodie-Innes (on behalf of W.B,Yeats) directly put the question to AEW:"What is the significance of the Dancing Man?)(letter published in The Occult Review,April,1919 or 1920) but Waite declined to answer in his reply(May of the same year).
In the Arcana arrangement used by Yeats and Farr the 3 of Swords correlates with the Knight of Wands on Temperance(Sagittarius).The end of the Second World.
The Eight of Wands correlates with with the 21st Tarot,the Dancing Woman who repeats the Knight's move illustrated by the horse of the Knight of Wands on the 14th Trump.
Mr.Parisious further correlated the 28 phases of the Moon with Tarot Trumps in an almost completely ignored article which he occasionally footnoted for author Ron Heisler.(Yeats Annual dated 1999 but actually written for the millenium in 2000) and an equally ignored illustrated speech"A Black Mass in Eden:W.B.Yeats and the Mystery of the Tarot Dance" given to the Fortean Society in the same year.A film exists but only the oral delivery (he was disppointed to learn)is being offered for sale by the Society.
The lunar arrangement starts at what (in the two-dimensional arrangement) is the end of the second world,XIV (Knight of Wands,3 of Swords,9 of Wands).
Yeats-Farr correlation,XIV=New Moon.,XVIII =First Quarter,The Lovers = Full Moon, IX= 4th Quarter which terminates on Trump XIII.Correlate= The entrance to the 13th Sphere according to WBY but a veritable Wasteland for Waite and Jesse Weston.
The Waite pack is divided into three worlds as clearly shown in the second divinatory method in Part III of the Pictorial Key.Read Highest World: I to VII,Second World,VIII to XIV,Third World,XV to XXI,presumably Malkuth.The Fool is in the middle(Scorpio) on one side.His red feather has been laid in the balance.He could easily lose his head if the law-suit goes against him as it certainly did in the unpublished W.B.Yeats-Florence Farr pack which preceeded the published version by AEW.Roger Parisious,who had it confirmed by George Yeats(1966) among others, gave this arrangement at the GD 100th Anniversary symposium.
Justice(Scorpio) has to be switched with Strength (Leo) not only to maintain the Zodical correspondence between Lion and the Lion but because it enables both of the upper worlds to be opened with the Visica Pisces,The Third world is likewise opened by the Visica Pisces,the one on the 2 of Pentacles correlates with the 15th Tarot Trump.Brodie-Innes (on behalf of W.B,Yeats) directly put the question to AEW:"What is the significance of the Dancing Man?)(letter published in The Occult Review,April,1919 or 1920) but Waite declined to answer in his reply(May of the same year).
In the Arcana arrangement used by Yeats and Farr the 3 of Swords correlates with the Knight of Wands on Temperance(Sagittarius).The end of the Second World.
The Eight of Wands correlates with with the 21st Tarot,the Dancing Woman who repeats the Knight's move illustrated by the horse of the Knight of Wands on the 14th Trump.
Mr.Parisious further correlated the 28 phases of the Moon with Tarot Trumps in an almost completely ignored article which he occasionally footnoted for author Ron Heisler.(Yeats Annual dated 1999 but actually written for the millenium in 2000) and an equally ignored illustrated speech"A Black Mass in Eden:W.B.Yeats and the Mystery of the Tarot Dance" given to the Fortean Society in the same year.A film exists but only the oral delivery (he was disppointed to learn)is being offered for sale by the Society.
The lunar arrangement starts at what (in the two-dimensional arrangement) is the end of the second world,XIV (Knight of Wands,3 of Swords,9 of Wands).
Yeats-Farr correlation,XIV=New Moon.,XVIII =First Quarter,The Lovers = Full Moon, IX= 4th Quarter which terminates on Trump XIII.Correlate= The entrance to the 13th Sphere according to WBY but a veritable Wasteland for Waite and Jesse Weston.
brightcrazystar
Charles Darnay said:The Waite pack is divided into three worlds as clearly shown in the second divinatory method in Part III of the Pictorial Key.Read Highest World: I to VII,Second World,VIII to XIV,Third World,XV to XXI,presumably Malkuth.The Fool is in the middle(Scorpio) on one side.His red feather has been laid in the balance.
Wecome to the forum! This is the first post I have seen from you.
Some of this is confusing to me:
You are saying Keys I-VII are the Highest World, VIII through XIV are the middle, and XV to XXI are the lowest world? Got it. Then you say the Fool is Scorpio "on one side"(?) with his red feather laid in the Balance.
The "Red Feather" is not the feather used in the Balance. It is the Ostrich Feather that is laid in the balance in the Double hall of Ma'at weighed against the heart of Ani. The Red Feather is, to me, an alchemical symbol of the Pelican, having ruddied it's white plumage with its own blood to feed it's young, (or more realistically) having used itself as a serving tray for the fish is feeds it young that it regurgitates from its gullet. It is a sign of the Xristos, and the newly emerged Red Tincture, the first sight of the Red King.
This is attributed to Red as the color of air in older systems. It does hold a balance though, for the white becomes the red, so that the red, once green, can become the white.
He could easily lose his head if the law-suit goes against him as it certainly did in the unpublished W.B.Yeats-Florence Farr pack which preceeded the published version by AEW.Roger Parisious,who had it confirmed by George Yeats(1966) among others, gave this arrangement at the GD 100th Anniversary symposium.
Huh? I didn't understand this at all, are you saying the Fool could lose his head if the law suit goes against him, being the judgement of his heart against the ostrich feather? I am pretty sure if he is negatively judged, he loses his heart which gets eaten by Ammut, and according to the set of Se-Osiris, his other bits are used as materials to make things in the world of the spirit. As he is disassembled.
Justice(Scorpio) has to be switched with Strength (Leo) not only to maintain the Zodical correspondence between Lion and the Lion but because it enables both of the upper worlds to be opened with the Visica Pisces,The Third world is likewise opened by the Visica Pisces,the one on the 2 of Pentacles correlates with the 15th Tarot Trump.Brodie-Innes (on behalf of W.B,Yeats) directly put the question to AEW:"What is the significance of the Dancing Man?)(letter published in The Occult Review,April,1919 or 1920) but Waite declined to answer in his reply(May of the same year).
Is The Fool Scorpio as you said above, or Justice Scorpio as you put here? How does switching this "maintain Zodiacal Correspondence between the Lion and the Lion?" I get all the vesica pisces references, but can you explain where there is a vesica pisces on the 2 of disks in the RWS deck? Do you mean the lemniscate? That is the basis of the Lorenz attractor as implied on the Devil Card, not the Vesica Pisces.
In the Arcana arrangement used by Yeats and Farr the 3 of Swords correlates with the Knight of Wands on Temperance(Sagittarius).The end of the Second World.
The Eight of Wands correlates with with the 21st Tarot,the Dancing Woman who repeats the Knight's move illustrated by the horse of the Knight of Wands on the 14th Trump.
Fascinating. 3 of swords correlates to the knight of wands on Temperance. How exactly it the Knight of Wands figured on the Temperance card? I also see it an an end of a second world, but because of the nature of Briah being entered only when you pierce to the heart of Yetzirah. But Sagittarius is too far down the tree for such an impartial stance, in my mind.
8 of Wands description totally lost me.
Mr.Parisious further correlated the 28 phases of the Moon with Tarot Trumps in an almost completely ignored article which he occasionally footnoted for author Ron Heisler.
I am not sure why this would be necessary. Why connect the 28 phases of the moon with Tarot Trumps? Geomancy works so much better for it.
I would love to see how he proposes these map to Tarot, if you care.
(Yeats Annual dated 1999 but actually written for the millenium in 2000) and an equally ignored illustrated speech"A Black Mass in Eden:W.B.Yeats and the Mystery of the Tarot Dance" given to the Fortean Society in the same year.A film exists but only the oral delivery (he was disppointed to learn)is being offered for sale by the Society.
The lunar arrangement starts at what (in the two-dimensional arrangement) is the end of the second world,XIV (Knight of Wands,3 of Swords,9 of Wands).
I totally did not get a singe bit of this, you may presume I know more of your internal language, but it simply doesn't map. So, the moon starts (New moon?) with:
Temperance / Knight of wands / 3 of Swords / 9 of wands
Are all of these cards related to the same thing (New Moon), or is this seen as a sequence starting with Temperance?
Yeats-Farr correlation,XIV=New Moon.,XVIII =First Quarter,The Lovers = Full Moon, IX= 4th Quarter which terminates on Trump XIII.Correlate= The entrance to the 13th Sphere according to WBY but a veritable Wasteland for Waite and Jesse Weston.
I would love to hear more about what you are saying, but it is tricky, cause it is all over the place, from key XIV, to XVIII, to IX to XIII. I use some elements of Tarot that are also all over the place, but I need to see a map of what elements of astrology or Qabala you assign to each card to follow this, and why those correspondences are true in a way that demands the Tarot associations to be re-routed.
For example; What you say of Scorpio may ring true to me once I figure out what you are saying exactly, for example, but why must it be reassigned to either The Fool, or Justice, which ever you actually asserted it was. Would what you say of Scorpio be true even if you maintained the association with Death?
Again, Tarot is one of the greatest tools of extrapolation I have come across, and we can all extropolate the solar system from a single atom, but the key is to make it relational and constructive. The way we do this is by discovering, and sharing, our internal language.
tarotcognito
I think I agree with you here. That and the fact (IMHO) that the feeling to be conveyed is of prime importance, and adding depictions of people might deter from that focus on feeling.light2000 said:Maybe this cards dont have people because talks about situations that people cant control.
All of them have a litle bit of suprises and maybe is more hight than peolpe can achive. What you think?
Though one might have to wonder about the 10 of Swords, then.< ponders >
brightcrazystar
tarobones said:I noticed Lord of Swiftness and Lord of Sorrow titles mentioned. I don't see these in the RWS deck, so I am unsure where they come from. I also get confused by planetary associations because there are several systems out there. Guess I'm still too new..........is there a book for the RWS deck that has those titles? Thanks ahead of tme for any info..................Michael
http://www.tarot.org.il/Library/Mathers/Book-T.html
This was a book passed around the adepts of the Golden Dawn. It was Waite's principal text for creating his Tarot, and commissioning fellow Golden Dawn Initiate Pamela Colman Smith as artists and designer. Making a deck of Tarot was something Adepts were expected to do. This was the guidance to do so.
Charles Darnay
bcs writes:
Originally Posted by Charles Darnay
The Waite pack is divided into three worlds as clearly shown in the second divinatory method in Part III of the Pictorial Key.Read Highest World: I to VII,Second World,VIII to XIV,Third World,XV to XXI,presumably Malkuth.The Fool is in the middle(Scorpio) on one side.His red feather has been laid in the balance.
Wecome to the forum! This is the first post I have seen from you.
Some of this is confusing to me:
You are saying Keys I-VII are the Highest World, VIII through XIV are the middle, and XV to XXI are the lowest world? Got it. Then you say the Fool is Scorpio "on one side"(?) with his red feather laid in the Balance.
CD:
No, Justice (as XI) is Scorpio.The Fool is laid across across it "on one side," thus forming the Ma'at symbolism.The same symbolism is found in the Isaic Tablet (see Wescott edition which Yeats and Farr used for their Tarot pack) where the man with the Red Turkey Feather is placed at the center.
cbs
The "Red Feather" is not the feather used in the Balance.
CD
To each his own .See further WBY's poem ,"The Statesman Holiday" where the red turkey feather again surfaces.
cbs
It is the Ostrich Feather that is laid in the balance in the Double hall of Ma'at weighed against the heart of Ani. The Red Feather is, to me, an alchemical symbol of the Pelican, having ruddied it's white plumage with its own blood to feed it's young, (or more realistically) having used itself as a serving tray for the fish is feeds it young that it regurgitates from its gullet. It is a sign of the Xristos, and the newly emerged Red Tincture, the first sight of the Red King.
CD
All of this is very fascinating but what is now the Waite pack doesn't have room to develop this concept from a structural standpoint.It's the Red Feather(Ma'at) which dominates.Look Waite had three Tarot packs of which he only published the first,Yeats-Farr had another on which Mr. Parisious and George Yeats contended Waite structured his first(1910) pack.Later(1930) Waite sponsored a fourth interpretation by A.E.Thierens,
which literally cursed Farr and Yeats .See the Farr -Thierens thread in this section.
cbs
This is attributed to Red as the color of air in older systems. It does hold a balance though, for the white becomes the red, so that the red, once green, can become the white.
CD
Again this is all very fascinating and I certainly don't claim to have the ultimate key to the color code in the Waite pack.Whatever Waite's color code,it could not have been identical with Yeats-Farr Ur-Tarot pack.
Permit me to explain.There is an unpublished collection of Florence Farr papers(many of them magical) which were formerly in the possession of A.E.Waite.These were discovered by Mr.Parisious in the basement of the John Watkins Bookshopin the first week of August,1971.
Anne Yeats intended to publish them under the editorship of Mr.Parisious but they disappeared after the death of Geoffrey Watkins and,unknown to Miss Yeats and Mr. Parisious, were purchased from the estate by Mr.R.A. Gilbert.
Mr.Gilbert kindly allowed Mr.Parisious to examine what is left of them during the later eighties and early nineties but has,so far as can be ascertained,shown no inclination to publish what are now his legal possessions.
Florence's scheme was based on a correlation of the seven traditional planets with the seven colors of the rainbow.She was synthesizing each
in actual horoscopes by a technique which is nowhere explained in the surviving manuscripts.It seems to relate to the correlation of the planets with the fixed stars(See the Proclus passages in GRS Mead's "Orpheus") and
the construction of the Augoeides(Body of Stars).
Of course,if such be the case, there will be no authorized elucidation.
cbs
Huh? I didn't understand this at all, are you saying the Fool could lose his head if the law suit goes against him, being the judgement of his heart against the ostrich feather? I am pretty sure if he is negatively judged, he loses his heart which gets eaten by Ammut, and according to the set of Se-Osiris, his other bits are used as materials to make things in the world of the spirit. As he is disassembled.
CD
Sorry I don't know the set of Si-Osiris,but I do know that Yeats regularly has a women dancing with a severed head and at one point specifically equates her with Salome and the Seven Veils.And we I am dealing with what Yeats-Farr made out of this not what the Si-Osiris people did with it.
If you check Waite's "Manual of Cartomacy" you'll find a Dream Book(largely ripped off without credit from Paul Christian) which contains a number of Tarot "dreams",the last of which states that there is nothing like a good beheading to bring prosperity to your land and benefit to the population.
Posterity seems to have by passed Waite's reference to the "striking executions" of PCS in "The Pictorial Key".But the witticism was much relished in older Dublin circles.
cbs
Quote:
Mr.Parisious further correlated the 28 phases of the Moon with Tarot Trumps in an almost completely ignored article which he occasionally footnoted for author Ron Heisler.
I am not sure why this would be necessary. Why connect the 28 phases of the moon with Tarot Trumps? Geomancy works so much better for it.
CD
It would be necessary if you ever decide to study Yeats-Farr and Tarot because Yeats published a book called "A Vision " in 1926 on which he spent seven years.He prefixed it with an elaborate diagram of the 28 Phases of the Moon.The symbols of the four Tarot suits are,without comment, equated with the four quarters of the Moon.
Later in the book he has a passage in which the Tarot court cards dance geomantic diagrams in the desert sands before being beheaded.This was significantly omitted in the completely re-written version of 1937.
He also equates the 1X Tarot Trump with the 26th Lunar phase.
As you will find in the Waite-Farr thread.Waite went into an absolute paroxysm over this publication and caused a counter publication to be issued.These links was ignored until Parisious published with Heisler in 2000.
Sorry must go.
Originally Posted by Charles Darnay
The Waite pack is divided into three worlds as clearly shown in the second divinatory method in Part III of the Pictorial Key.Read Highest World: I to VII,Second World,VIII to XIV,Third World,XV to XXI,presumably Malkuth.The Fool is in the middle(Scorpio) on one side.His red feather has been laid in the balance.
Wecome to the forum! This is the first post I have seen from you.
Some of this is confusing to me:
You are saying Keys I-VII are the Highest World, VIII through XIV are the middle, and XV to XXI are the lowest world? Got it. Then you say the Fool is Scorpio "on one side"(?) with his red feather laid in the Balance.
CD:
No, Justice (as XI) is Scorpio.The Fool is laid across across it "on one side," thus forming the Ma'at symbolism.The same symbolism is found in the Isaic Tablet (see Wescott edition which Yeats and Farr used for their Tarot pack) where the man with the Red Turkey Feather is placed at the center.
cbs
The "Red Feather" is not the feather used in the Balance.
CD
To each his own .See further WBY's poem ,"The Statesman Holiday" where the red turkey feather again surfaces.
cbs
It is the Ostrich Feather that is laid in the balance in the Double hall of Ma'at weighed against the heart of Ani. The Red Feather is, to me, an alchemical symbol of the Pelican, having ruddied it's white plumage with its own blood to feed it's young, (or more realistically) having used itself as a serving tray for the fish is feeds it young that it regurgitates from its gullet. It is a sign of the Xristos, and the newly emerged Red Tincture, the first sight of the Red King.
CD
All of this is very fascinating but what is now the Waite pack doesn't have room to develop this concept from a structural standpoint.It's the Red Feather(Ma'at) which dominates.Look Waite had three Tarot packs of which he only published the first,Yeats-Farr had another on which Mr. Parisious and George Yeats contended Waite structured his first(1910) pack.Later(1930) Waite sponsored a fourth interpretation by A.E.Thierens,
which literally cursed Farr and Yeats .See the Farr -Thierens thread in this section.
cbs
This is attributed to Red as the color of air in older systems. It does hold a balance though, for the white becomes the red, so that the red, once green, can become the white.
CD
Again this is all very fascinating and I certainly don't claim to have the ultimate key to the color code in the Waite pack.Whatever Waite's color code,it could not have been identical with Yeats-Farr Ur-Tarot pack.
Permit me to explain.There is an unpublished collection of Florence Farr papers(many of them magical) which were formerly in the possession of A.E.Waite.These were discovered by Mr.Parisious in the basement of the John Watkins Bookshopin the first week of August,1971.
Anne Yeats intended to publish them under the editorship of Mr.Parisious but they disappeared after the death of Geoffrey Watkins and,unknown to Miss Yeats and Mr. Parisious, were purchased from the estate by Mr.R.A. Gilbert.
Mr.Gilbert kindly allowed Mr.Parisious to examine what is left of them during the later eighties and early nineties but has,so far as can be ascertained,shown no inclination to publish what are now his legal possessions.
Florence's scheme was based on a correlation of the seven traditional planets with the seven colors of the rainbow.She was synthesizing each
in actual horoscopes by a technique which is nowhere explained in the surviving manuscripts.It seems to relate to the correlation of the planets with the fixed stars(See the Proclus passages in GRS Mead's "Orpheus") and
the construction of the Augoeides(Body of Stars).
Of course,if such be the case, there will be no authorized elucidation.
cbs
Huh? I didn't understand this at all, are you saying the Fool could lose his head if the law suit goes against him, being the judgement of his heart against the ostrich feather? I am pretty sure if he is negatively judged, he loses his heart which gets eaten by Ammut, and according to the set of Se-Osiris, his other bits are used as materials to make things in the world of the spirit. As he is disassembled.
CD
Sorry I don't know the set of Si-Osiris,but I do know that Yeats regularly has a women dancing with a severed head and at one point specifically equates her with Salome and the Seven Veils.And we I am dealing with what Yeats-Farr made out of this not what the Si-Osiris people did with it.
If you check Waite's "Manual of Cartomacy" you'll find a Dream Book(largely ripped off without credit from Paul Christian) which contains a number of Tarot "dreams",the last of which states that there is nothing like a good beheading to bring prosperity to your land and benefit to the population.
Posterity seems to have by passed Waite's reference to the "striking executions" of PCS in "The Pictorial Key".But the witticism was much relished in older Dublin circles.
cbs
Quote:
Mr.Parisious further correlated the 28 phases of the Moon with Tarot Trumps in an almost completely ignored article which he occasionally footnoted for author Ron Heisler.
I am not sure why this would be necessary. Why connect the 28 phases of the moon with Tarot Trumps? Geomancy works so much better for it.
CD
It would be necessary if you ever decide to study Yeats-Farr and Tarot because Yeats published a book called "A Vision " in 1926 on which he spent seven years.He prefixed it with an elaborate diagram of the 28 Phases of the Moon.The symbols of the four Tarot suits are,without comment, equated with the four quarters of the Moon.
Later in the book he has a passage in which the Tarot court cards dance geomantic diagrams in the desert sands before being beheaded.This was significantly omitted in the completely re-written version of 1937.
He also equates the 1X Tarot Trump with the 26th Lunar phase.
As you will find in the Waite-Farr thread.Waite went into an absolute paroxysm over this publication and caused a counter publication to be issued.These links was ignored until Parisious published with Heisler in 2000.
Sorry must go.
Charles Darnay
RChMI wrote:
The concept of the cards 3 Swords and 8 Wands were intended to stand on their own using the card numbers as the basic keys.
3 Swords, Saturn in Libra, Sephra 3 is Saturn, the swords are of the element of Air with Libra being the cardinal sign of Air. The card is titled Lord of Sorrow, the image of the pierced heart harkens to that of the heart of the Madonna, with the three swords as the three nails of the crucifixion.
.8 Wands, Mercury in Sagittarius, Sephra 8 is Mercury. The card is titled Lord of Swiftness, the image harkens to the swiftness of arrows in flight, of which Sagittarius is seen as an archer.
CD
The Tarot layout of the Three Worlds allows another application of exactly the same diagram .It is the one seemingly used by the Florence Farr Sphere group into which Waite was inducted in March,1903.
The three rows of cards are taken as representing an Egyptian chessboard(Senmut board) such as is depicted at the opening of the Book of the Dead where the owner Ani plays at Senmut.A modern edition of the game appropriately entitled"Passing Through the Nether World" was published by the Boston Museum in the 1980's.
This two dimensional arrangement promulgated by FF maintained the GD cosmological correspondences and matched one Court Card to each of the twelve Zodiacal Signs (King,Queen,Knight),for instance, Knight of Wands to Sagittarius,terminating the Second World;Queen of Pentacles to Tarot XV,opening the third or lowest world.
Examples: Since the GD assigns three Lesser Arcana to each sign, Sagittarius will be assigned either 8,9,or 10 of Wands.Capricorn will be assigned either 2,3,or 4 Pentacles.
Mr.Parisious,having having documents (or elder oral sources) for matching only, perhaps, two or three of the Lesser Arcana to their correct Zodiacal correspondences in Tarot Chess originally plumped for 8 of Wands as ending the second world paired to Temperance and "precipitate" Knight of Wands. I thinkthis would be corroborated by RChMI's reading but unfortunately it cannot be correct,once it is realized (Space won't allow me to argue it here) that Yeats and Farr inserted the lunar cycle into their Tarot Chessboard before Waite joined their group(March,1903).
The man on the Nine of Wands is guarding the New Moon,Phase One.Waite says that he is "a-waiting" the "onslaught".On Tarot XIII(WBY's 13th Sphere),dark of the Moon ,"a prelate with clasped a-waits his end"
Waite has signed in at the beginning and the end of the Lunar course just as he sometimes signed his private directives to his Tarot pupils "a-waiting."Mr.Gilbert has published an example of this dated 1910 exactly correlating to the publication of the Waite-Smith version of what was Yeats-Farr Tarot. Thereby rendering it certain that Yeats would never complete his own Tarot pack system based on the same structure.This was not a friendly act.
"3 Swords, Saturn in Libra, Sephra 3 is Saturn, the swords are of the element of Air with Libra being the cardinal sign of Air. The card is titled Lord of Sorrow, the image of the pierced heart harkens to that of the heart of the Madonna, with the three swords as the three nails of the crucifixion."
Waite,echoing W.Wescott, describes it as "cloud and rain behind"..
However there is another reading. WBY regards XIV, the New Moon, as associated with Glastonbury Abbey.He also knows that in the old Celtic story Parsifal kills the Red Knight(his father's murderer) and dons his armor.When he and Florence Farr made their Celltic rituals(1898) they adopted the recently published translation of the Longer Prose Parceval which claimed to have originated at Glastonbury Abbey.From this(Christian) perspective the above reading takes on additional plausability.
For paradoxical as it may seem it is the "Christian "mystic Waite who produced what could be read as a Satanic pack and it is the "neo-Pagan" Yeats who re-introduced a genuine Christian element into Tarot for perhaps the first time since the Renaissance.
It would be interesting to expand on 8 of Wands as representing the speed of the Dancer rather than the speed of the Knight of Wands(Her Dance is likewise a Knight's move.)Or the symbol of the heart passing from the center to the Fourteenth card but I haven't any documentation on this and,once you've got the technique and know its immediate historical origins ,one person's opinion is as good as another's.
O.k.,what does one do with the other twenty-four lesser arcana? Well you can pair twelve additional with Kings,Queens and Knaves.
And we know that the Pages are holding the Aces. So Four Pages (and Four Aces) go on to the Four Tarots representing the Four Elements.
Example(and this one comes confirmed by one speaking from the inside) Ace of Cups and Page of Cups to Hanged Man;Superimposition 10 of Cups(rainbow) to Hanged Man.Five of Wands to Chalice representing the five wounds on the body of Christ Jesus. Yeats equates him with Oedipus at Colonus as the prefiguration of Christ.
Black Magician-Astrologer A.E.Thierens,under Waite's benign eye,equates the Hanged Man with Judas and the Making of the Golem.In itself an odd,even hetroclite, combination of symbolisms.
So the Zodical signs(as seen in two dimensions) are set up in four card arrangements.Three of the elements in Five card arrangements and the Planets except,apparently, for XXI, in one on one arrangements.
Hey,The Wheel of Fortune does have a human figure,though I guess you would be insulting Angels to refer to them as mere "people".
The concept of the cards 3 Swords and 8 Wands were intended to stand on their own using the card numbers as the basic keys.
3 Swords, Saturn in Libra, Sephra 3 is Saturn, the swords are of the element of Air with Libra being the cardinal sign of Air. The card is titled Lord of Sorrow, the image of the pierced heart harkens to that of the heart of the Madonna, with the three swords as the three nails of the crucifixion.
.8 Wands, Mercury in Sagittarius, Sephra 8 is Mercury. The card is titled Lord of Swiftness, the image harkens to the swiftness of arrows in flight, of which Sagittarius is seen as an archer.
CD
The Tarot layout of the Three Worlds allows another application of exactly the same diagram .It is the one seemingly used by the Florence Farr Sphere group into which Waite was inducted in March,1903.
The three rows of cards are taken as representing an Egyptian chessboard(Senmut board) such as is depicted at the opening of the Book of the Dead where the owner Ani plays at Senmut.A modern edition of the game appropriately entitled"Passing Through the Nether World" was published by the Boston Museum in the 1980's.
This two dimensional arrangement promulgated by FF maintained the GD cosmological correspondences and matched one Court Card to each of the twelve Zodiacal Signs (King,Queen,Knight),for instance, Knight of Wands to Sagittarius,terminating the Second World;Queen of Pentacles to Tarot XV,opening the third or lowest world.
Examples: Since the GD assigns three Lesser Arcana to each sign, Sagittarius will be assigned either 8,9,or 10 of Wands.Capricorn will be assigned either 2,3,or 4 Pentacles.
Mr.Parisious,having having documents (or elder oral sources) for matching only, perhaps, two or three of the Lesser Arcana to their correct Zodiacal correspondences in Tarot Chess originally plumped for 8 of Wands as ending the second world paired to Temperance and "precipitate" Knight of Wands. I thinkthis would be corroborated by RChMI's reading but unfortunately it cannot be correct,once it is realized (Space won't allow me to argue it here) that Yeats and Farr inserted the lunar cycle into their Tarot Chessboard before Waite joined their group(March,1903).
The man on the Nine of Wands is guarding the New Moon,Phase One.Waite says that he is "a-waiting" the "onslaught".On Tarot XIII(WBY's 13th Sphere),dark of the Moon ,"a prelate with clasped a-waits his end"
Waite has signed in at the beginning and the end of the Lunar course just as he sometimes signed his private directives to his Tarot pupils "a-waiting."Mr.Gilbert has published an example of this dated 1910 exactly correlating to the publication of the Waite-Smith version of what was Yeats-Farr Tarot. Thereby rendering it certain that Yeats would never complete his own Tarot pack system based on the same structure.This was not a friendly act.
"3 Swords, Saturn in Libra, Sephra 3 is Saturn, the swords are of the element of Air with Libra being the cardinal sign of Air. The card is titled Lord of Sorrow, the image of the pierced heart harkens to that of the heart of the Madonna, with the three swords as the three nails of the crucifixion."
Waite,echoing W.Wescott, describes it as "cloud and rain behind"..
However there is another reading. WBY regards XIV, the New Moon, as associated with Glastonbury Abbey.He also knows that in the old Celtic story Parsifal kills the Red Knight(his father's murderer) and dons his armor.When he and Florence Farr made their Celltic rituals(1898) they adopted the recently published translation of the Longer Prose Parceval which claimed to have originated at Glastonbury Abbey.From this(Christian) perspective the above reading takes on additional plausability.
For paradoxical as it may seem it is the "Christian "mystic Waite who produced what could be read as a Satanic pack and it is the "neo-Pagan" Yeats who re-introduced a genuine Christian element into Tarot for perhaps the first time since the Renaissance.
It would be interesting to expand on 8 of Wands as representing the speed of the Dancer rather than the speed of the Knight of Wands(Her Dance is likewise a Knight's move.)Or the symbol of the heart passing from the center to the Fourteenth card but I haven't any documentation on this and,once you've got the technique and know its immediate historical origins ,one person's opinion is as good as another's.
O.k.,what does one do with the other twenty-four lesser arcana? Well you can pair twelve additional with Kings,Queens and Knaves.
And we know that the Pages are holding the Aces. So Four Pages (and Four Aces) go on to the Four Tarots representing the Four Elements.
Example(and this one comes confirmed by one speaking from the inside) Ace of Cups and Page of Cups to Hanged Man;Superimposition 10 of Cups(rainbow) to Hanged Man.Five of Wands to Chalice representing the five wounds on the body of Christ Jesus. Yeats equates him with Oedipus at Colonus as the prefiguration of Christ.
Black Magician-Astrologer A.E.Thierens,under Waite's benign eye,equates the Hanged Man with Judas and the Making of the Golem.In itself an odd,even hetroclite, combination of symbolisms.
So the Zodical signs(as seen in two dimensions) are set up in four card arrangements.Three of the elements in Five card arrangements and the Planets except,apparently, for XXI, in one on one arrangements.
Hey,The Wheel of Fortune does have a human figure,though I guess you would be insulting Angels to refer to them as mere "people".
Vetch
If Angels aren't people, then Temperance belongs to the no-people cards, too.
Charles Darnay
I trust you know I was joking ,Vetch.Three "no people" cards only.Unless heads don't count as people either.
I will start a separate thread in the next couple of days proving the Celtic Cross layout came directly from W.B.Yeats and would have been in use in Farr's Sphere group when Waite came to them in March.1904.
A Crowleyite from Sussex University has recently taken issue with Mr. Parisious on this, but he couldn 't be more wrong.
I will start a separate thread in the next couple of days proving the Celtic Cross layout came directly from W.B.Yeats and would have been in use in Farr's Sphere group when Waite came to them in March.1904.
A Crowleyite from Sussex University has recently taken issue with Mr. Parisious on this, but he couldn 't be more wrong.
