Sexuality and the Minor Arcanas

Sophie

Rosanne said:
Hanged Man, I was not offended by your content or ruffled for that matter. I understand your post was your view and interest. I did not take a view that you would use Tarot to be inquisitive or purient. I am just curious why this would be of particular interest as a complete view. I would feel the same puzzlement in a way- if someone saw Tarot as completely Herbal or Floral or any narrow correspondence.~Rosanne
Because sex is a fundamental human motive - no, I should say, it's a fundamental motive of all organic beings, be they human, animal or plants. And that understanding sexuality is part of understanding our own lives. The human is (almost) unique in making of sex more than a reproductive function (yes, I know the bonobos!), and sex influences many of our decisions, no matter how we try to hide if from ourselves and from others. Furthermore - and not only for those of us who are highly sexed - it is an inherent part of daily life, influencing everything. By sex, I don't just mean the sexual act. I mean that sexual tension, attraction or repulsion manifests in all areas of life, from our birth to our death. Whether it comes out as the will to intercourse or is sublimated into something else, sex rules us. Therefore it is not only legitimate to use tarot to explore sex, it would be foolish not to!
 

BLFO

The Hanged Man said:
Absolutely fascinating question! I'm so glad that someone has eventually asked about this. For sex, Swords are male, Cups are female, Wands are hermaphroditic and Pentacles are androgenous (From now on I'll refer to Pentacles as Coins).

For sexual behaviours, thoughts and expressions of the sexes, Swords are heterosexuality, Cups are homosexuality, Wands are bisexuality and Pentacles are asexuality. This is if we are seeking to complicate matters so much as to include bisexuality and asexuality. If we are just looking at hetero and homo-sexual human behaviour or impulses, then male heterosexuality is Swords, male homosexuality is Wands. Female heterosexuality is Cups, female homosexuality is Coins.

Confused? I don't blame you, but hear me out. It took me a lot of thought to concieve this philosophy.

Here is my reasoning, which will also explain why I see Swords as Fire and Wands as Air.

The phallic and wombic symbolism for Swords being male and Cups female is probably self-explanatory.

Why are Wands hermaphroditic? Wands are hermaphroditic because physically, a wand functions in two ways, one end projects energy and the other absorbs energy - the wand being essentially a transmitter of psychic energy, it cannot project power without drawing power through it from the other end. Although essentially phallic in appearance, many people overlook the receptive qualities of the wand. Check out wands that have a pointed crystal at on end and a rounded one at the other, these adornments are to accentuate the symbolic qualities of the wand, because one end is for the emitting of energy, the other to draw energy inwards, this is how the wand is able to act as a transmitter of psychic energy. So physically, the wand is both male and female - or hermaphroditic.

The Sword however, is only physically male, it is purely phallic, there are no receptive qualities to the Sword. It thrusts, pierces, stabs, gouges and penetrates, but it has no practical receptive aspect to it's physical body.

The Cup, is only physically female, purely a symbol of the womb, it has no active, projective qualities, it is a recepticle, a container, it is a vacant space which surrenders to that which is put into it, but it has no penetrative aspect to it's body.

This then, explains why I take the unpopular but, I believe, more appropriate view of Swords being properly related to elemental Fire. This is because Water and Fire are of course opposites, and so then must be Cups and Swords, for the reasons I have explained. Fire is active, such as the light rays that travel in straight lines and penetrate darkness, Water then isthat darkness, Fire's passive counterpart.

Wands symbolise Air, because the Air encompasses both the penetrative qualities of Fire/Swords and the receptive qualities of Water/Cups. To explain this, the Air plays host to light as well as moisture, and so physically it at once contains the male qualities of Fire and the female qualities of Water, and this is why Air is the hermaphrodite element. The rainbow is a particularly potent symbol of Air/Wands, because as light (Fire) penetrates raindrops (Water) a rainbow is created. So the rainbow, being at once composed of physical elements of masculinity and femininity, encompasses both potentials, as does Air, as do Wands, as does the symbol of the hermaphrodite.

So the first two aspects of creation are light (Sword/Fire) and darkness (Cup/Water), and between the interpolations of these two raw ingredients of the cosmic continuum, and containing within it and embodying them both, comes colour (Wand/Air), which may symbolise a great many, many things, but colour is life, which is created between these two poles, though as yet abstract and disembodied.........complicated I know, but bear with me.

Coins then must be androgenous, because as Sword/Fire/male and Cup/Water/female are complimentary counterparts, then so must be Wand/Air/hermaphrodite and Coin/Earth/androgyne.

Now, Coins/Earth are androgenous because, and the Wiccans will not like this being said about Mother, Earth has no sexual function of it's own. Earth does not have any faculty to generate life of it's own accord, but Earth merely plays host to life. Life develops from the Earth due to the influence of that which is sown within it via the two vital ingredients for life, light (Fire) and water, and the two of these male and female ingredients are carried to earth in combination via hermaphrodite Air. These are the sexually fertile elements that create life on Earth, Earth has no sexual fertility of it's own accord, it is androgenous. 'Mother Earth', therefore, would probably be more appropriately called 'Surrogate Mother Earth'.

Water/Cup is Mother, Fire/Sword is Father, Air/Wand and Earth/Coin would be Brother and Sister, despite the fact that one is hermaphroditic and the other androgenous. We would still, for simplicity, refer to Air/Wand as 'he', and Earth/Coin as 'she', because although hermaphroditic, the phallic Wand would appear generally masculine, the rounded Coin would appear generally feminine, betraying her innate androgeny. It is a point of interest to consider that a natural human hermaphrodite would normally appear generally male to others, a natural human androgyne would normally appear feminine.

The interaction between Fire and Water, light and darkness, brought us Air and the colours of the rainbow, life as yet abtract and disembodied, but with Earth, the rainbow of Air is embodied, materialised and becomes tangible. Thus we have the myriad miracles of creation, the cosmos composed of four basic ingredients:

Fire - Male - Light
Water - Female - Darkness
Air - Hermaphrodite - Colour (spirit)
Earth - Androgyne - Form (matter)

Okay, so that is my philosophy of physical sex and the Tarot dealt with, now onto the actual sexual expressions of the sexes, which is simpler:

Sword/Fire is male and female heterosexuality, because it is the nature of the Sword to cut and to divide, and the Greek prefix 'hetero' means 'to oppose or differentiate'. So it would seem appropriate that the Sword embodies the heterosexual impulse in both sexes.

Cup/Water is male and female homosexuality, because it is the nature of Water to pool together and to find it's level, and the Greek prefix, 'homo', means 'the same or equal to'. So it seems appropriate that the Cup embraces the homosexual impulse in both sexes.

Wand/Air then, would have the capacity for both inclinations, as Air plays host and transmits the influence of both Fire and Water, so it swings both ways.

Coin/Earth, in being opposite to Wand/Air, isn't particularly interested in sex at all. :(

Now, this would be if we were to look at sexuality inclusive of the more complicated matters of bisexuality and asexuality, but were we to only look at hetero or homo-sexual proclivities, then it would go as follows. Sword/Fire would be male heterosexuality, because the Sword only penetrates, Wand/Air would be male homosexuality, as we have already seen how the Wands has the capacity to be both an active and a passive instrument. Female heterosexuality is Cup/Water as it is only passive, female homosexuality is strictly speaking neither penetrative or receptive, because in the case of two women there is nothing to put anything into upon the physical body.

So as for sexuality and the Tarot suits, Swords would be heterosexuality in general, but particularly male heterosexuality. Cups would be homosexuality in general as well as female heterosexuality. Wands are male homosexuality in general, as well as bisexuality in both sexes, and Coins are asexuality but also lesbianism.

Now, we could detail things even further by taking a particular sexuality and divide it into four again. Let's take male homosexuality as an example. A male homosexual could be seen in four ways. If he is only sexually active, he is Swords, if only passive, he is Cups, if he is versatile he is Wands if he is neither (either through masterbation or not practising his inclination) he is Coins.

For another example, let's take a female heterosexual, a dominatrix or one who somehow penetrates her partner is Swords, if she is totally passive she is Cups, if both Wands, if neither Coins................and so on.

Now, this can get really interesting when consdering the Court Cards. 'What is this guys general sexual inclination?' - 'Knight of Swords'. So as Knights correspond to Fire, perhaps he is bisexual, but as Swords are active, perhaps he is a bisexual that prefers women, Cups, he prefers men, Wands he likes both pretty much the same, Coins, he is latently bisexual, but not focusing his sexuality in either direction. The possibilities are endless.

I'm not that sure if I would actually make much use of this method to try and divine someone's sexuality, this is more Tarot philosophy than Tarot in practice. Looking at things this way just increases my understanding of the Tarot suits.

You see, I've thought this out plenty! ;)

xXx

I read most of it. It will take me time to digest the rest but I like how you think things out though. You really did thought things out.

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Okay, I did not think things so deeply but I just had a gut feeling concerning gender, sex and sexuality with these cards.

I have only done pentacles fully. But Ace Sword seem so obvious.

Ace Sword= a virgin having sex for the first time. Or a non-virgin couple having sex for the first time with each other.

King Pentacles= a person who finds making money more fun than having sex or having a relationship. Or he/she believes that power is sexy.

Queen Pentacles= a woman who is successfully pregnant after being infertile for a while.

Knight Pentacles= couple wanting to take relationship nice and slow. They will date for long period of time before having sexual intercourse.

Page Pentacles= someone fantasizing about sex concerning someone but won't act on it.

10 Pentacles= After the Knight Pentacles took the relationship nice and slow, they are discussing to start to have sex. Taking the relationship to the next level? Or maybe they recently had sex for the first time and is enjoying their relationship on a deeper level. I have not decided on this yet.

9 pentacles= having a satisfying sex life.

8 pentacles= A new lover. A person learning about sex like reading sex books. Or person using sexual mood enhancers like drugs to aphrodisiacs, flowers, lingerie to "entrap" or seduce a person to have sex with you.

7 Pentacles= waiting to see if a person is pregnant or not.

6 pentacles= someone donating egg or sperm cells or receiving them due to infertility issues.

5 pentacles= sexual dread. Not wanting to have sex when your partner does. Sexually unfulfilled. Awful sex partner.

4 pentacles= clinging...someone with a sexual fetish. They "cling or grasp" to high heels fetish, leather fetish, etc. Or someone with a sexual addiction.


3 pentacles= Polygamous marriage. Or expecting triplets.

2 pentacles= trying to choose between two lovers. Or trying to decide if you are hetersexual versus bisexual or gay/lesbian.

Ace= dowry for marriage. Or sex for money.

What do you guys think?
 

BLFO

Knight of Wands said:
BLFO people are not arguing because they don't like the topic.

They argue because they have different opinions within the topic.

People have a right to post their opinions.

:)

Post your opinions on the tarot meaning. Argue on if tarot should have a sexual meaning or not in a new created thread. I did not create this thread to argue if something should or should not have a meaning. That is all I am saying.
 

Knight of Wands

It seems to me BFLO that you should start being more accepting of others instead of rudely jumping down the throats of everyone else.

They are posting in a thread you have created, about a subject you brought up.

So stop moaning.
 

BLFO

I am not being rude at all. You are accusing, isn't that being rude. Nor am I jumping down anyone's throats. I nicely asked that if you can not offer any interpretations, don't try to start a debate in a thread that was not meant to have a damn debate. Now doing that is what I call rude. This is an interpretation thread of card symbolisms.

If you want to debate or have a conversation on whether tarot should have sexual interpretations there is a section of the board for that. It is called the Talking Tarot section. Go there, create a thread and discuss. http://www.tarotforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=16

Anyone debating, arguing about the subject are the ones jumping down the throats of those who don't want this thread to stray from the original intentions for what is is created.

Yes, I know I created this thread. And since I am the one who did, it is mine to determine how it goes as long as I follow the rules and guidelines of the moderators on this board. If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple as that. And if you don't like what I am saying...take it to the moderators. I am not here to fight but to learn and to enjoy myself at the same time. I am not interested in getting into some catty pettiness. I am just not.
 

Rosanne

BLFO said:
Sexuality is a part of life.
Profound!

Plain and simple to discuss sexuality in all forms.
Thanks for the enlightenment!

You can assign tarot to anything if you put your mind to it and be willing to test out theories. Tarot and cooking. Tarot and health. Tarot and magick. Tarot and spy & espionage. Tarot and fashion. Tarot and how to rob a bank.
True and some do, but I do not agree with those as complete views either!

I will not feel obligated to defend why I find a topic interesting while others do not.
Actually I was not asking you to defend yourself-I was curious and asked for enlightenment.

If you don't like a topic, do not participate.
I follow that rule also.

And that is all I am going to say.
Oh how I wish that was true! ~Rosanne
 

Simone

Moderator Note:

As far as we understood the spirit of the initial post of this thread, it was about finding out how people thought of the sexual side of the individual cards, not about sticking just one label on the card.

Questioning the goal of the question or the ethics of reading are off-topic and meta-discussion, and personal attacks and rude remarks are uncalled for and against Aeclectic Tarot Forum rules and guidelines.

We ask you to keep your posts respectful and on topic - or edit them to be so.

In case this reveals itself to be impossible, we unfortunately will have to lock this thread from further discussions, which we'd rather not be forced to do.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Simone and Moonbow*
co-Moderators
 

The Hanged Man

I could not agree with the moderator's comment's more. On the other thread concerning Sexuality and the Minor Arcana there was a person, who it is plainly apparent was rude, and I was merely defending myself, and I managed to do this without being rude myself. I wonder if this person was posted by a mod?

I can't believe how many bad vibes seem to be being thrown about on these threads concerning sexuality. I suppose that sex and death are the eternal taboo's and are bound to get some people's back's up.

I am offended and confused that I recieved a PM on the other thread asking me to edit my posts, but I do not believe that there are grounds for me to do so. I have kept a separate copy of these threads in a word document.

xXx
 

Simone

Moderator Note reiterated.

Apparently we can't keep the thread on topic and not discuss who said what outside of it, as well as not discussing moderating decisions, so the thread will be closed now. I am sorry to have to resort to this kind of measure.

We are all adults, please behave as such.

Thank you.