study group application ~ capricorn

Yes, I've got Saturn in 8th! Plus Jupiter and Pluto, so those heavy weights make it a very busy place in my chart. I'm a Scorpian at heart ^_^

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The joys of chart synthesis

Hi Folks,

Before we leave Capricorn I’d like to note what I’ve learned in the last couple of days.

Although I’m Sagittarian my Ascendant is Capricorn and is fairly critical to overall chart interpretation. The aspects to the Ascendant are part of this. I have a few: trine Mars, sesquiquadrate Saturn, and square Neptune. Relating the Sun in Sag. to the Cap Ascendant and looking at the interpretations of these other aspects has been quite startling, though not surprising, with the identification. Saturn as the Ruler of Capricorn and its presence in the 8th House in my natal chart has been interesting to think about.

In thinking about overall chart synthesis, I discovered the importance of Midheaven for a person my age. Although my MC is in Virgo, my Venus in Capricorn squares MC in an identifiable but balanced way I think.

Chart synthesis is fascinating. I have three 12th house planets and a few months ago used to believe that fairly superficial analysis of the 12th House as being the House of ill fortune and oddballs. I’ve changed my opinion now, having read Hamaker-Zondag and looked at the meaning of the Ascendant and its various aspects, Some of the challenges in my own experience can be more firmly located in the 1st House with the Ascendant and in the 8th House with various energies and aspects there.

The synthesis process is interesting in that it very clearly identifies strengths and gifts and that in itself is wonderful.

Isthmus, thanks for recommending Stephen Arroyo’s Chart Interpretation Handbook. It’s superb.

Now, is Aquarius next? That should bring in a few extras. I look forward to it.

Moongold

Yes, the sun enters Aquarius on the 20th this year. I might be a little late... Mondays errrrrrrrr....

Can you imagine we've only done 3 signs??? That's pretty incredible. As for what I've learned about astrology.... I'm digging the timing aspect. I never liked timing systems w/tarot, so this is a welcome change. I've also been looking into composite charts/synastry which has been fun and insightful. Actually it's nice b/c my sister didn't like me studying astrology at first, but since I've been at it for awhile, she realizes it's just like any other system - like math, or like writing stories or philosophy or whatever. It's pulling an order from chaos and that's why ppl do it.

isthmus nekoi said:

Can you imagine we've only done 3 signs??? That's pretty incredible. As for what I've learned about astrology.... I'm digging the timing aspect. I never liked timing systems w/tarot, so this is a welcome change. I've also been looking into composite charts/synastry which has been fun and insightful. Actually it's nice b/c my sister didn't like me studying astrology at first, but since I've been at it for awhile, she realizes it's just like any other system - like math, or like writing stories or philosophy or whatever. It's pulling an order from chaos and that's why ppl do it.

Click to expand...

Hi Isthmus,

Yes, I've learned a huge amount as well, knowing absolutely nothing before a few months ago. And now I am becoming quite obsessive about it.

I like the phrase ......pulling an order from chaos...... Astrology seems to be based on a mixture of empirical science and intuition. In a sense the intuitive, abstract knowledge, for want of a better term, is so profound and collective that is almost empirical.

Does that make sense? The understanding and identification I've had during this short learning process has left me a bit breathless. I think there is more *method and substance* to this than this than to conventional religion. No offence intended to anyone.

Are you or Minderwiz going to lead is into Aquarius? I'm smiling as I write this, remembering the 1960's and 70's with Hair! They are remaking that show here now.

Love and laughter.........

Moongold

I'm really impressed by the way you two have come on and developed. I've just taken a back seat because you seem to really be enjoying yourselves.

Well Saturn rules again for the next month (at least traditionally) and here he opposes the Sun's Leo. This is where Old Father Time reaches the peak of his power - from then on Jupiter gets us to turn our thoughts to Spring and the entry of Mars.

Minderwiz said:

Well Saturn rules again for the next month (at least traditionally) and here he opposes the Sun's Leo. This is where Old Father Time reaches the peak of his power - from then on Jupiter gets us to turn our thoughts to Spring and the entry of Mars.

Click to expand...

How come Saturn stll rules, Minderwiz? I thought Uranus was the Ruler of the 2nd House. Is there another intercept here?

I can see where Sun and Uranus spark off against each other. I think they'll be back soon.

Mooongold

Moongold,

Traditional rulers and Modern rulers is the answer. Remember Uranus wasn't discovered till 1781. Until the nineteenth century Saturn was the ruler of Aquarius - and indeed for many Astrologers still is - even those who award rulership to Uranus still refer to Saturn as the co-ruler.

In terms of natural symbolism. Saturn should be the ruler, for most of our history it was the planet most remote from the Sun and therefore should also rule Winter, as well as limitation and restriction (it defined the limit of the then known universe.

Astrologers argue very strongly amongst themselves whether rulership should be awarded on the basis of similarity, which might well fit Uranus for the role, or on the basis of system.

The ancient system of rulerships as codified by Ptolemy, gave the Sun rulership of high summer (in the Northern hemisphere) - the period in which the Sun was in Leo. The Moon ruled the adjacent sign of Cancer. Saturn was awarded the rulerships of the two signs opposite - Capricorn for the Moon and Cancer, and Aquarius for the Sun and Leo. He ruled Capricorn by night and Aquarius by day. Each of the other planets then took rulerships of the signs adjacent to Saturn's pair in Chaldean order - Jupiter ruled Pisces and Sagittarius, Mars ruled Scorpio and Aries, Venus ruled Libra and Taurus and finally Mercury ruled Virgo and Gemini.

Notice that this system does not depend at all on planets being similar to signs - Mars rules Aries and Scorpio because of its position in the list of planets, not because it is particularly Arien or Scorpionic. Thus traditionalists will argue that to give Scorpio to Pluto takes away any reason why Mars should rule Aries - and the same for Jupiter and Saturn.

Now I don't pretend to have 'the answer' to this - I think its a matter of what you feel is right. I tend to use the traditional rulerships but I'm certainly not above looking to Uranus for Aquarius if I think it fits better in certain readings. This is not a 'cheat' even before Uranus came into our framework of knowledge, Astrologers might turn to the most dignified planet at a particular place (such as the Ascendant or House cusp) based on a complex system of essential and accidental dignities. Thus they too might not always use Mars as the significator of Aries or Scorpio in some circumstances.

I would say that any Astrologer should remember the old rulerships and even if they use Uranus in the main as the ruler of Aquarius there are times when they might find that Saturn fits better. Even Psycological Astrologers like Stephen Arroyo have turned to traditional rulerships in certain situations.

Minderwiz said:

Moongold,

Traditional rulers and Modern rulers is the answer. Remember Uranus wasn't discovered till 1781. Until the nineteenth century Saturn was the ruler of Aquarius - and indeed for many Astrologers still is - even those who award rulership to Uranus still refer to Saturn as the co-ruler.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm happy with this, I couldn't find my list of Rulerships last night and it was really late.

Moongold

Yeah, Arroyo gives heavy weight to the traditional rulerships. Actually, that was the one beef I had w/his chart interpretation book. He skims over the new planets b/c they're generational - fair enough, but I wished he'd written more about them.

Here's a link for traditional rulership/alchemy:
http://www.almac.co.uk/personal/tidmaraj/paper2.htm
scroll down to the zodiac part.

Moongold, I'm glad you've found this so insightful. The way I see it, like all systems/ideologies, astrology is based upon the same basic patterns. You can find it in astrology, find it in philosophy, find it in politics, find it in games, find it in something that offends you, even... Of course, some systems have been around longer, refined by a multitude of minds, adjusted w/time and social change.
Actually, another really neat thing I've found from doing astrology is being able to narrow down the birthtimes of friends. I had one friend who was a little iffy about astrology. I told her that it looked to me that she was born around 8-9 pm. She asked her mother and e-mailed me back later: how did you know??? ^_^

a final note

just one more Cappy thought before we move to Aquarius.

Saturn as a god is linked to Chronos, or Father Time. This is our ultimate limation, the one none of us will escape, and that is time, aging and mortality.