What if you discovered your favourite deck was painted by a Trump supporter?

Aleister Crowley had a number of highly eccentric far-right political opinions, as you might have imagined. Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, and Dion Fortune expressed racist opinions that would curl your hair. Then you move on to the likes of Julius Evola and other magickal exponents of strenuous living and warrior cultures. That did not end well, as you might have expected. The only historical occultists I can think of who are associated with any kind of political leftism are Eliphas Lévi, and depending how you characterize her politics, Maud Gonne.

Currently you get more of this among the runic writers than in tarot. And this, subconsciously, may be one reason why I never warmed to the Thoth deck or system.

But I don't really hold these sort of opinions against historical figures. My unscientific impression is that until rather recently -- at least, until well into my lifetime -- hard left opinions tended to march together with materialistic world views. You aren't going to find much interest in tarot or astrology among that set.

What a very interesting topic. And one that I can relate to. I have been extremely vocal on social media in my dislike of Trump, and here's the reverse scenario. I have lost some online " friends" as a result, with some stating they could not possibly consider buying any more decks from me because of my views. So I'm assuming that they will have difficulties using previous ones they may happen to already own.
But this is a far from a black and white issue. I have also crossed swords with some of my peers who I know are on the opposing side of this current political divide. Nevertheless I'm trying to be rational. On the one hand I'm saying to myself, that associating and judging someone's work by their political persuasion is an excessive reaction, UNLESS their deck in some way expresses their views or the deck is quite deliberately politically motivated, in which case they should have no complaints if they alienate a percentage of their audience. But equally I can appreciate how it's also difficult to completely ignore and separate an individual from their work. For example I could not knowingly support someone's work who had say been cruel to animals... it would certainly "taint" their work in my eyes, even if the subject of their work was completely unrelated to animals. So I guess it's a personal choice wether politics is important enough also.
In the case of Trump it's also less clear as the primary motive for supporting him would be a consideration. There is a difference in my mind between say a white supremacist, bible bashing, anti anyone who looks different, verses the poor uninformed guy from middle America, who genuinely beleaved and bought into the rhetoric that the good times, jobs and factories will come back to his town.
As I say it's not black and white in most cases.

Beancrew49 said:

I guess this could be perceived by some as an interesting discussion, but I find it to be an energy drain. I can't believe how many people in this thread claim to oppose Trump, yet love to talk about him, give attention to him, say his name over and over, and generally hand over a piece of their energy to him under the misguided notion that they are doing something proactive to oppose him. If you want to oppose Trump, behave as if he doesn't exist. Then you will see him slowly slink away from your reality. I expect more from this group.

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If you consider this topic and thread a drain of your energy I guess you won't be posting further comments. As for your suggestion that the best way to oppose Trump is to ignore him, that may work for you and on some personal "reality" of yours. But not mine which is also the real physical world. Since Trump (there I mentioned his name again) is'nt just some abstract concept but someone who cans tangeabley affect our lives. I'm also not clear on your comment about 'expecting more from this group" but it sounds like a put down. I found it an interesting question for the reasons I posted earlier, of my own experiences, and I found the responses interesting also.

Beancrew49 said:

I expect more from this group.

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Seriously feeling collectively judged here, and found wanting.

Everyone has different views. In fact, it would be a rather boring world (and forum!) if everyone all said and believed the same things, and held the same views.

KINDERGARTEN MENTALITY at it's WORST!

People have the right to choose Democratic, Republic....or Other and should not be discriminated against, judged, or put down for it.

So much for the "freedom of anything!".

Who cares about what Designer or Art Maker supports this person or that person. Art is Art.

Adults should be adults not children fighting in a kindergarten and teaching the next generation to do the same.

"We will not buy your Art because you are a Trump supporter" or "You should not sing at his inauguration because we will not buy your music anymore".

Different ways of being the worst type of people and "narrow minded" is one of them.

"Dixie Chicks" are a great example of just how horrible people can be to people over a President.


I am sooooo glad NOT TO be from the USA if this is anything to go by. I am proud to be an New Zealander and for not being brought up to be so petty minded in that way.


DND

Beancrew49 said:

I guess this could be perceived by some as an interesting discussion, but I find it to be an energy drain. I can't believe how many people in this thread claim to oppose Trump, yet love to talk about him, give attention to him, say his name over and over, and generally hand over a piece of their energy to him under the misguided notion that they are doing something proactive to oppose him. If you want to oppose Trump, behave as if he doesn't exist. Then you will see him slowly slink away from your reality. I expect more from this group.

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Stuffing negative thoughts, ideas and energies down into our beings is not healthy. It's always healthier to discuss and talk it out. If simply using someone's name in reference to them and their actions, is handing our energy over to him, wow, I guess we are seriously screwed. How on earth can anything get done if we follow your dictates? People are righteously angry, for a damn good reason, it seems if some folks can't handle that anger, they should avoid reading most things online, at least for a period of time. This anger is not going to fade away in a rainbow of love and unicorns sent to the opposing team.

If it manifests as one or two dozen people not buying certain decks, oh, dear, we might end up with cancer from the hatred festering within us.

And I agree with Ciro's posts, thank you, Ciro.

As long as the cards don't feature Trump or him dancing naked on the pin of needle, then I would have no issue with it. There are a lot of people who believe in things I don't agree with, but I still buy products from them and do business with them. We all do business with these individuals everyday. Whether they work as a cashier, a doctor, a musician, etc...

DownUnderNZer said:

KINDERGARTEN MENTALITY at it's WORST!

People have the right to choose Democratic, Republic....or Other and should not be discriminated against, judged, or put down for it.

So much for the "freedom of anything!".

Who cares about what Designer or Art Maker supports this person or that person. Art is Art.

Adults should be adults not children fighting in a kindergarten and teaching the next generation to do the same.

"We will not buy your Art because you are a Trump supporter" or "You should not sing at his inauguration because we will not buy your music anymore".

Different ways of being the worst type of people and "narrow minded" is one of them.

"Dixie Chicks" are a great example of just how horrible people can be to people over a President.


I am sooooo glad NOT TO be from the USA if this is anything to go by. I am proud to be an New Zealander and for not being brought up to be so petty minded in that way.


DND

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Yes .....but. Art isn't always just Art. Art can be provocative, it can instigate. That may be cool and creative, but it can also be used to motivate push an agenda. Political national, ethnic, religious commercial propaganda comes to mind. When that is the case then it's more than just art and as such can be critiqued from a different set of values. I'm not saying that is the case here, I'm just saying that "art is art' is a cliched expression that gives art a free pass that isn't always warranted.

Freedom from anything? I don't know, but this thread is also freedom of discussion.

DND, it is not petty to be cognizant of where your money is being spent. Same goes for where your spiritual energy is being spent. Earthair, just like the Dixie Chicks, has every right to spend her financial and spiritual energy where she sees fit. I think that's what this thread is about. Expressing this kind of concern. Maybe I've misunderstood your comment.

cirom said:

If you consider this topic and thread a drain of your energy I guess you won't be posting further comments. As for your suggestion that the best way to oppose Trump is to ignore him, that may work for you and on some personal "reality" of yours. But not mine which is also the real physical world. Since Trump (there I mentioned his name again) is'nt just some abstract concept but someone who cans tangeabley affect our lives. I'm also not clear on your comment about 'expecting more from this group" but it sounds like a put down. I found it an interesting question for the reasons I posted earlier, of my own experiences, and I found the responses interesting also.

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Please explain how any President has directly affected your life, apart from media projections.