DruidCraft Tarot - Cernunnos

willowfox said:

. . . [T]his guy had to do with fertility and sexual love for procreation, he was also a god of material wealth.

The blame for him being another version of the devil lies solely with the christian church, they turned him into something nasty and evil, when in actual fact the Celts saw him as an okay god.

Why the creators of this deck use this god is beyond me, surely they could have used a symbol that was much closer to the christian devil,not a benevolent fertility god. And the creators are supposed to be Druids?

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The reason is simple - because Christians are the ones who made a devil out of the Horned God archetype - not the other way around. The creators of the DruidCraft are simply portraying the archetypal energies of the Horned God as He originally was. . . so why would they need to mimic Christianity in an earth based deck?

sharpchick said:

. . so why would they need to mimic Christianity in an earth based deck?

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It not so much a matter of mimicking, there is a need for a card to show the evil that resides in people. If there is no card to show this evil then how can it be portrayed when you come across it in a reading.

It does not matter if the deck is earth based or not, evil has been around since the dawn of civilization, the christians recognized this evil in humans and invented a creature that embodied all those qualities and blamed this fictitious creature for the evil that exists in the world but this evil actually exists in the brains of some humans.
I am not saying there is a creature such as the devil because there is not but what I am saying is that evil does exist and will always exist, there is no getting away from that fact of life, but to use Cernunnos to represent this evil that exists in the world is the wrong guy to use. Like I said before Cernunnos was one of the good gods and therefore should not have been used to position #15.

willowfox said:

It not so much a matter of mimicking, there is a need for a card to show the evil that resides in people. If there is no card to show this evil then how can it be portrayed when you come across it in a reading.

It does not matter if the deck is earth based or not, evil has been around since the dawn of civilization, the christians recognized this evil in humans and invented a creature that embodied all those qualities and blamed this fictitious creature for the evil that exists in the world but this evil actually exists in the brains of some humans.
I am not saying there is a creature such as the devil because there is not but what I am saying is that evil does exist and will always exist, there is no getting away from that fact of life, but to use Cernunnos to represent this evil that exists in the world is the wrong guy to use. Like I said before Cernunnos was one of the good gods and therefore should not have been used to position #15.

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This has always been my take on decks that switch the Devil to the Horned God or whatnot. Now I am a tradtional Witch so I know Cernunnos and his other aspects very very well. To me the Devil never "scared" me but it was the card in the deck that represented my shadow, the shadow.....obsession, matieralism, overindulgence.....the wicked or evil side of humanity and the worlds above and below (and yes evil of course exists). So when they stick an actual God I worship in that spot, it just doesn't make any sense to me. Cernunnos doesn't represent any of those things I mentioned above to me. Him being the Lord of the Wild, Underworld God, Robin Goodfellow, God of nature and primal life, White Lord of Light/Bringer of Light/Lucifer....none of these and many more aspects mean anything negative or shadow. It does change the meaning of the card. And it's fine if that's the intention. But it's nice to have a card protraying those more negative, evil and shadow traits that are so basic to life. When they do the switcharoo it's just left out.

Miss 6

sharpchick said:

The reason is simple - because Christians are the ones who made a devil out of the Horned God archetype - not the other way around. The creators of the DruidCraft are simply portraying the archetypal energies of the Horned God as He originally was. . . so why would they need to mimic Christianity in an earth based deck?

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They don't need to mimic Christianity on the Devil card. They can devise another concept and image to represent the shadow, evil and the negative.

From my point of view there is no incarnation of evil so this card represents 2 sides of the same coin.

on one side go after as much wealth and earthly happiness and desires as you like , heck love it embrace it

on the other side when the things you like possess you or you become so obsessed with it that you are consumed by it to the points of addiction we need you re visit the temperance card.

as an example of the picture on the card.

on one side they most likely had some great earth shattering sex

on the bad side they can be so obsessed by it that they miss the god power right in front of them.

There was a discussion on the relation of sexual energy and spiritual energy and I think it was in 78 degrees of wisdom where Rachael said they are the same thing.

Dancing Bear said:

I have never feared the Devil Card, And I feel Cernunnos is pretty much the same in meaning as the Devil card, But with the druidcraft as SC says, we need to embrace our animal desires as the Druids did, but not get obsessed nor consumed by them..
Within some relationships it can be based on just pure lust , obsession and possession..I think the lovers is just one example, we can expand on these Obssessions in every aspect of life.. The Presence Of Cernunnos warns us of how human and vunerable we can be, and how it is so easy to fall into the trap..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cernunnos


http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefscernunnos.htm

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really awesome information thanks I agree with you about the devil card , it is more of a yield sign then anything competly bad.

I think I am coming from a different perspective altogether on the card in the thirteenth position of the Major Arcana, regardless of what it is called.

Our own Thirteen explains my take on the "devil" card quite nicely and it really doesn't have anything to do with evil, the Devil, or Satan.

The Devil

I can see where you are all coming from in the interpertations of card 13....I agree with most all of it.

I think what it boils down to...is for me....is that using the God Cernunnos on that card just doesn't fit. Period.

Miss 6

It is funny how perspective modifies you views. I see this as druidcraft taken back Cernunnos. He is also hurn the master of the hunt all that passion and adrenaline.

On the flip side if we all had the same views of these cards it would be quit boring indeed.

also this is a really fun discussion , I wish all the cards were like this , It would make my 78 weeks of study a little easier and way more fun.

Question asked, Number , Element

Question: when is enough of a good thing to much?
Element-Earth , While we are in a earthly existence we might as well enjoy all the pleasures, but we can go to excess, this card is just as mush about enjoying our earthly pleasures and experiencing the passions the spiritual energy that we have, as about addiction, obsession, compulsiveness.
Number-6 : 6’s are about balance , harmony a reprieve after the challenges of the 5’s ,the 6 shows the positive side of this card well . if we have harmony and balance with our passions we will be having fun and enjoying life to its fullest . If we let our desires and passions control us we will be addicted and /or obsessive.

Talking with the card:
The big guy seemed to be laughing , but when the couple get up and went at it again he seemed a little concerned, like a dad watching his kids at play but worrying if they will play to rough, and hurt themselves. I get the impression he wants them to learn on there own.

The good , bad and the indifferent

The good: enjoyment of life and its bounty. Spiritual energy flowing through you “ taking the bull by the horns", passion.

The bad: obsession, possession, compulsion, addiction, prison of you own making

Indifferent: being part of the moment spiritual energy balance about to move but unsure of where to go.