meanings of the Death card

Richard

Understood. :)

As for something ever ending, I agree with the comments above. For me, the closest thing to an end is World, but it's not the END of all things, nothing is. I doubt even the most sceptical physicians could state that.

I love this forum! :)
Thank you, Maagi. I am in complete agreement with you about the Death card and the Phoenix (which was my former avatar before I adopted the Star for the Xmas season).
 

Richard

......So death means death, but the meaning of 'death' in the particular must be drawn from its full semantic range dependent upon context and question. That may of course include 'death' in its mortal sense; as a reminder of our mortality it is also an occasional reminder not to put off until tomorrow what we can do today, and sometimes perhaps of our ultimate equality :)......
Indeed, that is precisely my interpretation of the Death card.
 

tarotcognito

Hmm.... weeellllllllllll

It's a nice card, I'm not saying it isn't, but I have a little problem with the Phoenix as Death. It kind of makes me think too much about those overly New Age decks where death isn't death, but Transformation, or something like that. Even though the Shadowscapes doesn't go that far, the Phoenix is still kind of a "temporary" death for me, too much a symbol of regeneration rather the Death, which I feel kind of misses the point of Death.
YES! This, exactly this, bingo, ditto, and every other way I can think of to agree with this. To me, Death is Death. It's not about regeneration, rebirth or transformation; it's about finality, about the necessary ending BEFORE rebirth. One could argue that Death contains the seed of rebirth, just like Yin contains the seed of Yang, but I have never, ever got that feeling from the Death card. To me, at best, Death might contain the future possibility of rebirth, and that's it - and I find that even a stretch. In my Tarot perspective, regeneration, rebirth and transformation all fall under the aegis of the Judgement card.

As much as I appreciate Stephanie Pui-Min's artistic talent and like her depiction of the Phoenix itself, I don't agree with its visual assignation to the Death card. It would've been the perfect image for the Judgement card. I would have LOVED it had it been assigned to represent Judgement. But not Death.

I'm dangerously close to going off on a rant about my personal opinion viz. cards that are renamed for the sake of softening the impact of the message, but I'm going to keep my online mouth shut for the sake of not derailing the thread. ;)

All IMHO, of course.
 

Richard

......I'm dangerously close to going off on a rant about my personal opinion viz. cards that are renamed for the sake of softening the impact of the message, but I'm going to keep my online mouth shut for the sake of not derailing the thread. ;)

All IMHO, of course.
Okay, I'll rant for you. :) Regeneration of some sort may be implicit in Death, but I think it is inexcusable to replace the idea of termination with a euphemism such as Transformation. The same goes for other cards which may be considered undesirable or offensive. One's interpretation of Death may include the idea of rebirth or transformation, depending on the question and other cards in the spread, but it is not helpful to replace its primary meaning with a vague euphemism which may not even be applicable.
 

tarotcognito

Okay, I'll rant for you. :) Regeneration of some sort may be implicit in Death, but I think it is inexcusable to replace the idea of termination with a euphemism such as Transformation. The same goes for other cards which may be considered undesirable or offensive. One's interpretation of Death may include the idea of rebirth or transformation, depending on the question and other cards in the spread, but it is not helpful to replace its primary meaning with a vague euphemism which may not even be applicable.
What a perfect, elegant rant. I couldn't have said it better myself. And I completely agree.

Tip of my hat your way. :thumbsup:
 

Maagi

Okay, I'll rant for you. :) Regeneration of some sort may be implicit in Death, but I think it is inexcusable to replace the idea of termination with a euphemism such as Transformation. The same goes for other cards which may be considered undesirable or offensive. One's interpretation of Death may include the idea of rebirth or transformation, depending on the question and other cards in the spread, but it is not helpful to replace its primary meaning with a vague euphemism which may not even be applicable.

I understand the point, but I still have to bring into this discussion the point of not-really-knowing-what-the-cards-initially-mean. :)

We don't know, really. If the symbolism is universal, as I think, it's actually more probable to mean regeneration. Philosophically I mean. Of course, concretely death is death. Maybe it all comes to the basic philosophy; do you think symbols are something touchable, concrete, or are they abstract metaphores.

That's my three cents. :)
 

kwaw

I understand the point, but I still have to bring into this discussion the point of not-really-knowing-what-the-cards-initially-mean. :)

I think in historical terms that is nothing but new age revisionist anti-christian 'wishful thinking' (or baloney to give it its technical term) - the old 'origins and meanings lost in time' position is historical nonsense - but that is a subject for another (the history) forum should anyone want to explore it.

In terms of 'universal' symbolism it strikes me that a straightforward emblem of death is more universal than something like a phoenix (which arguably as already mentioned would be better suited to the judgement card than death) . . . from the concrete and universal symbol we are free to derive a variety of abstractions (be they 'universal' beliefs, conceptions, 'realities' or otherwise).
 

Maagi

I think in historical terms that is nothing but new age revisionist anti-christian 'wishful thinking' (or baloney to give it its technical term).

Can you be a little more specific?
 

Zephyros

I agree with kwaw (great post about Death, by the way) in that I see Death as an end, even though I can philosophically wax on as I did in my previous posts about how regeneration may be inherent in the full spectrum of Death, but the actual event or person can't foresee that kind of rebirth, nor, in away, should they try to. If I use the worms metaphor again, an animal dying may provide nourishment to plant life and thus begin the cycle of life anew, but precious good that does to it as it's dead, gone, kaput.

I wrote before that Death is the first of a two stage process, and that step is very important, not less than the next step, that of the rebirth decks that call their Death "Transformation" limit themselves to. In a sense the entire Tarot deck talks about the cycles of life and transformation and death and rebirth, there's no need to "prettify" a card that is so important to the overall "Tarot story."

I don't know if the symbols are that universal, either. Westerners may see Death as a cold, forbidding concept, but in Japan for example, every year cherry blossom festivals are held in cemeteries. In China, dead ancestors are seen as "temporarily gone" but command high respect from their living relatives who leave offerings on altars dedicated to them. Spartans lived for Death, if it came in wars defending their country. Hindus are perhaps best known for their beliefs about reincarnation, but many other cultures hold similar values such as the Druze, and Christians in a different form. Jews believe in the resurrection of the dead in a parade to Jerusalem at the coming of the Messiah.

That's philosophically speaking; practically speaking (as in, in a reading), Death as Death comes to remind us not that better things are to come after the Death, but that the Death itself is important. Like those cultures I mentioned, Death calls us not to be afraid, but to revel in the experience of Death, of the End. Like in the Thoth, for example, where the Death is happy and dancing, I can totally see the Thoth's Lust in a place we can't see, enjoying the show to the fullest; that kind of ecstasy of the end is what Death calls for.

"Transformation" is like replacing one burden with another, Death is the complete lifting of that burden, not knowing what others will come after.