Grigori's reading swap

Anybody please feel free to chime in on this. A crowdsourced tarot reading is a good tarot reading.

"You know already I'm fascinated by your Enochian work JB, so I'd be interested to do this reading. For my reading I'd like to pick a related topic in fact, I think that would be quite fitting, and think you're ideal for reading on my question. I have quite some interest in Enochian work, and have tried a couple of operations without real success. I'd love some advice on what steps I could take to develop practical skills or success in this area. "

I decided to break this down into 2 specific questions.

Q1 - Is it wise for Gregori to undertake practical Enochian magick at this time:

4 of wands
Completion
Venus in Aries
Chesed in Atziluth

Firstly, passionate Venus and impatient Aries have a short lived fling that really only scratches the surface. Venus is hoping for a deep and lasting romance but Aries just wants to cut and run.

That doesn’t sound too promising but it gets better when we look at it from a Qabalistic perspective.

When a 4 comes into the equation it changes everything. 4 = Chesed (sphere of Jupiter) on the Tree of Life. Chesed is where the Supernals begin their manifestation into the world of Form - Kether, Binah and Chokmah.

We also have to consider each sphere in terms of its opposite and in this case it's Geburah/Strength. Geburah breaks down, Chesed builds up. They are constantly engaged in the motion of opposing each other and pulling against each other, achieving balance in the process. Chesed is the 'ruler' of the 2nd triad of the Tree and as such is a lower vibration of Kether. The upshot of all that is that the nature of 4/Chesed is to be a receptacle for the higher forces that flow down into it from the Supernals, but is on a see-saw with Geburah, attempting to find balance. Chesed is also the Demiurge, the creator deity who is completely oblivious to fact that it is a container for the the 'trickle down' energy of the 3 great forces above it on the Tree and that’s where it derives it’s power. Chesed in Atziluth is creative yet constructive power.

What I take from that is, yes, please continue attempting to have a relationship with Enochian magick, but make a commitment. Venus isn't looking for a booty call. At present you're in Chesed, or perhaps you ARE Chesed, which is a great place to be - nice and stable, quite powerful and so forth, but unaware of what is going on above. You probably feel like it's two steps forward, one step back. But that’s ok. 4’s ultimately bring balance and order. Don’t be put off by what you perceive as a lack of progress. I’d also question what ‘real success’ might actually be.

Q2. What steps I could take to develop practical skills or success in this area?

Wheel of Fortune
Jupiter
Kaph
Path 21 – Chesed to Netzach

Another link to Netzach/Venus and Chesed/Jupiter and another reference to a state of constant change and movement that actually provides stability rather than chaos. The Wheel is in a state of perpetual motion. The 3 alchemical principles are also here, which relate to the 3 Supernals.

The Wheel of Fortune is actually where the action of 4 of Wands takes place. Reference Duquette’s Thoth tarot book on p124 for an explanation of this. I don’t feel like typing it all out because he explains it better than I can.

Perhaps you aren’t giving ‘external forces’ enough of a look in, or you think you need to do it all yourself and find all your own answers. Answers and help can come from ‘above’ or from your subconscious rather than your logical and rational mind. It suggests to me that you ARE a receptacle for higher forces but you are discounting that somehow and not perceiving it.

I always link this card with practices of divination so it’s suggesting to me that you need to improve your divination and psychic skills, which would include scrying if you use that as part of your Enochian ritual.

10 of Swords
Sun in Gemini
Ruin
Malkuth in Yetzirah

Yuck. It’s always a wonder to me that the Sun in Gemini leads to Ruin. I’m a Gemini. Humph. Are you a Gemini? Crowley said that this card is the ruin of all intellect, mental and moral qualities. Doesn’t that sound like fun?

I think this is your fear. Somewhere in there there’s a bit of a “what if?” What if Enochian magick really does make your crazy (ruins your intellectual, mental and moral qualities) or does bring about the apocalypse? Well, you’re the only person who can decide if those are risks you’re willing to take, or what ever fears you have about it are real and valid.

If anyone can comment on the effects of Malkuth in Yetzirah, please chime in. I’m not sure what to say about that bit.

One can only go so far intellectually with Enochian ( i.e. 'nutting out' the system, preparation, {and my fav. } drawing up and painting the tablets ).

The process and results are beyond intellect IMO and in my experience one encounters (if the working is successful) a class of 'Daimonic Hierarchy' ... again not 'intellectual'. and perhaps not rational .... but when did that ever stop us

The ten of swords can indeed be negative in a material sense, but when looked at from a magical perspective it gives good information. There needs to be a breaking down of something, most likely ego, since this is advice about a magical operation. The good news here is that it's the ten so it's likely some work is already done. Jupiter from the Wheel also helps indicates to me he's positioned himself in a good place. Keep up the good work. We know of how stubborn those egos can be.


AW

An excellent reading, insofar as you've said everything I would say, and so I have no choice but to agree. Definite potential there in Chesed, it is everything that could (or should) be, but the idea of following through with it is strongly represented here. There's also the idea of the carrot and the donkey; giving it your all will give back in equal proportions. Love and War commune here, giving birth to the best that that action can get, and this card illustrates beautifully Love under Will.

Fortune is for me a giant lottery machine that has all the balls bouncing off each other, except what's bouncing isn't lotto balls but possibilities. Each bounces off the other creating an infinity of new possibilities, each one joining in the dance. Fortune is, in essence, the engine, it's what keeps the world spinning. As an advice card my guess would be that practice would create its own momentum, it's a question of harnessing it.

Ruin is the lowest the Swords can get, when almost all the energy has run out and the clear, abstract thought of the Ace has been all but forgotten and become muddled in details. When you start a project you begin with an ideal which becomes steadily more polluted as it goes on. Suddenly you're busy, don't have the energy, doubt your capacity to complete it, delay it for a thousand and one reasons. Ruin shares a lot with Futility, but with a healthy dose of guilt and paranoia thrown in just for kicks. If Futility is an unfocused mind and the separation from Tiphareth keeping one from attaining their goals, and then Ruin adds the bewildering witchcraft of the Moon to that and little good comes of it.

Jellybean said:

Anybody please feel free to chime in on this. ...
10 of Swords
Sun in Gemini
Ruin
Malkuth in Yetzirah

Yuck. It’s always a wonder to me that the Sun in Gemini leads to Ruin. I’m a Gemini. Humph. Are you a Gemini? Crowley said that this card is the ruin of all intellect, mental and moral qualities. Doesn’t that sound like fun?

.

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Gemini! <hand up> ... well siderally

My take on it is that 10 of swords is not Sun in Gemini. It is that decan of Gemini that is annoted by the Sun. This means that it relates to that part of Gemini not the influence of the Sun in Gemini generally.

Third Decan of Gemini:
Agrippa: A man seeking for arms, and a fool holding in the right hand a bird, and in his left a pipe; and they are the significations of forgetfulness, wrath, boldness, jests, scurrilities, and unprofitable words.

But what IS in the third decan of Gemini? Pollux is!
According to Ptolemy it is of the nature of Mars; and, to Alvidas, of the Moon, Mars and Uranus. It gives a subtle, crafty, spirited, brave, audacious, cruel and rash nature, a love of boxing, dignified malevolence, and is connected with poisons. [Robson*, p.185-186.]

Pollux has a strong Martian nature and has the name 'the wicked boy' of the of the sibling Twins. According to its nature, this star is brutal and tyrannical, violent and cruel if in conjunction with the Sun, Moon, Ascendant, MC or with malefics. Just as Mars has its good sides if the energy it creates is channeled constructively, so Pollux should not always be considered as unhelpful. The star badly place could manifest that way, not by the native misusing his energy but by others deceiving him and fate playing him some cruel tricks. Helper if in peril on voyages at sea. [Fixed Stars and Their Interpretation, Elsbeth Ebertin, 1928, p.41.]

So it doesn’t mean YOU are like that if you born with the Sun ‘in’ Gemini (and I am willing to make a bet it wasn’t in the constellation of Gemini when you were born ), however if you born with the Sun in the third decan of the constellation that would give you a Pollux / Sun conjunction

Regardless … mine was .. and I am as sweet as pie … ask ANYONE here … they will tell you ( and I don't do boxing ... however, martial arts, weaponry etc ... I don't mind forum boxing though )

I think Ruin also exemplifies a certain aspect of "lust of result." The intellect is by nature a lustful, active entity, and as it descends the Tree it bends itself to progressively solidifying enterprises. This culminates at Malkuth where the intellect is completely in the service of solidity.

Oooooh you guys are good!

Ravenest - thank you for that clarity around Sun in Gemini.

I keep thinking about all that Jupiterian energy. Maybe approaching the Jupiter Seniors of each Tablet for advice about how YOU can best work with the system (as opposed to how someone else might) could be a place to start. You could also construct some kind of Jupiterian altar, or even just a sigil to keep about you. Can't hurt!

I also agree that 'Ruin' might be about the destruction of your lower ego/self, and a need to put aside all your preconceptions and conditioning.

Thanks Jellybean for the reading, and everyone for your input!

Jellybean said:

What I take from that is, yes, please continue attempting to have a relationship with Enochian magick, but make a commitment. Venus isn't looking for a booty call. At present you're in Chesed, or perhaps you ARE Chesed, which is a great place to be - nice and stable, quite powerful and so forth, but unaware of what is going on above. You probably feel like it's two steps forward, one step back. But that’s ok. 4’s ultimately bring balance and order. Don’t be put off by what you perceive as a lack of progress. I’d also question what ‘real success’ might actually be.

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Interesting that Chesed and the 4 came out strongly in both cards. The last decan of Aries (4 of Wands) is actually my birth decan also, I used to have this card as my avatar on AT and often read it as if someone pointing a big finger at me and saying "YOU" when it comes up in a reading about me. I think your advice is really solid here. Enochian is something that has been a 'pop out of the cupboard on rare occasions' and some more regular practice and a commitment over a period seems really wise advice. I've read in a couple of places that Enochian is a system that even people without much natural talent get results at the outset, so was a bit disappointed that I've not had success in a group working or my couple of solo experiments. I am unsure how I'd define success, though had minor targets in mind. Something I could point at other than just me talking to myself would be sufficient for me.

I always link this card with practices of divination so it’s suggesting to me that you need to improve your divination and psychic skills, which would include scrying if you use that as part of your Enochian ritual.

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Heard. I'm not that successful in scrying, and had truthfully hoped the reputed power of Enochian work may assist to give me a leg up in that area. I actually have a really beautiful obsidian mirror (sorry JB, I know you want one and I have one sitting to waste haha) that was a gift from a good friend here on the forum. I'll start back to regular practice with it as step 1, as Clos recommended.

I think this is your fear. Somewhere in there there’s a bit of a “what if?” What if Enochian magick really does make your crazy (ruins your intellectual, mental and moral qualities) or does bring about the apocalypse? Well, you’re the only person who can decide if those are risks you’re willing to take, or what ever fears you have about it are real and valid.

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I'm not aware of any fear around this area, but think 'over analysing' may be a more likely interpretation. Clos's comments re 'lust of result' seem apt here, and AW's perceptive that I need to let some ego go. When I've tried I've had my diary sitting by reading to quickly scrawl every little experience down in. Perhaps for the moment I should take a more laid back approach and just try to have an experience first, before I start preparing for analysing it in years ahead Intellectual barriers perhaps, or stuck at that intellectual phase as Ravenest suggests.

Thanks again all!