Parzival
Your Opinion on Crowley ?
wandking said:
Your opinions on Crowley?
wandking
but he eventually offers his own dogma
In later writings he offers perhaps his most famous quote. Sadly it is often misconstrued by modern groups. Perhaps one of the most misunderstood quotes by Crowley deals with paths, thus providing what serves as a rallying cry to New Age groups“ He said, “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.” On the surface, this phrase represents a license to act in any manner that an adept who follows it deems suitable, with reckless disregard for others. Keep in mind; however, that previous quotes by Crowley consistently demonstrate a deep understanding, not a superficial approach implied by the phrase. What this statement truly suggests is that Crowley was not a slavish follower of some specific theological dogma. Instead, he was an individual in the purest sense, which likely brought about many of his problems with the Golden Dawn. In the text he wrote, the term Thelema emerges as the primary doctrine Crowley endorses. Thelema is an English spelling of a Greek word and it simply translates into “will” or “intention,” which certainly ties easily into the motto Crowley offers in his book called Liber AL vel Legis, also known as The Book of the Law. That single overriding all-encompassing law provides the centerpiece for the whole text, which focuses on finding a personal path, instead of following the herd mentality toward theosophy of the masses. Those who choose this path assuredly risk becoming social outcasts, even in New Age and Wicca circles.
In later writings he offers perhaps his most famous quote. Sadly it is often misconstrued by modern groups. Perhaps one of the most misunderstood quotes by Crowley deals with paths, thus providing what serves as a rallying cry to New Age groups“ He said, “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.” On the surface, this phrase represents a license to act in any manner that an adept who follows it deems suitable, with reckless disregard for others. Keep in mind; however, that previous quotes by Crowley consistently demonstrate a deep understanding, not a superficial approach implied by the phrase. What this statement truly suggests is that Crowley was not a slavish follower of some specific theological dogma. Instead, he was an individual in the purest sense, which likely brought about many of his problems with the Golden Dawn. In the text he wrote, the term Thelema emerges as the primary doctrine Crowley endorses. Thelema is an English spelling of a Greek word and it simply translates into “will” or “intention,” which certainly ties easily into the motto Crowley offers in his book called Liber AL vel Legis, also known as The Book of the Law. That single overriding all-encompassing law provides the centerpiece for the whole text, which focuses on finding a personal path, instead of following the herd mentality toward theosophy of the masses. Those who choose this path assuredly risk becoming social outcasts, even in New Age and Wicca circles.
SunriseDesire
negative aspects
Since it was asked what the negative rumors are that I have heard, I will adress as many as i can right here. For one thing, he tortured and killed animals. Examples are of him torturing a cat in various ways to test the 9 lives theory as well as his reportedly crucifying a frog. there's also claims of him abandoning his first child who died. Then there's claims about how he and the mother of his second child got very heavy into heroin to the point of living in squalor. That child died also. Due to living conditions, or so it appeared.
We all have sins, yes of course. But I have a soft spot for children and animals so to me those are more than just sins.
I am fascinated by all you guys have to tell me about him. I feel there's many layers to him and I am curious to learn more so keep it coming!
Since it was asked what the negative rumors are that I have heard, I will adress as many as i can right here. For one thing, he tortured and killed animals. Examples are of him torturing a cat in various ways to test the 9 lives theory as well as his reportedly crucifying a frog. there's also claims of him abandoning his first child who died. Then there's claims about how he and the mother of his second child got very heavy into heroin to the point of living in squalor. That child died also. Due to living conditions, or so it appeared.
We all have sins, yes of course. But I have a soft spot for children and animals so to me those are more than just sins.
I am fascinated by all you guys have to tell me about him. I feel there's many layers to him and I am curious to learn more so keep it coming!
wandking
Frankly, as Crowley rumors go, that's just the tip of the iceberg, Sunrise. Rumors on the man are rampant... to him infamy was as good as fame. As far as rumors about cat-killing go, I've never seen anything tangible, to support the rumors.
Also I've never seen anything to prove he was into Devil worship, another river of rumor on the man. He did create a Gnostic Mass but nothing that worships the Devil.
Children are another matter: His hedonistic life-style probably left a wave of illegitimate children behind. Heroin is no myth when it comes to Crowley either and he endulged in other drugs before that Big Devil put a major bite on his pocketbook.
Also I've never seen anything to prove he was into Devil worship, another river of rumor on the man. He did create a Gnostic Mass but nothing that worships the Devil.
Children are another matter: His hedonistic life-style probably left a wave of illegitimate children behind. Heroin is no myth when it comes to Crowley either and he endulged in other drugs before that Big Devil put a major bite on his pocketbook.
Aeon418
Yes, he did kill a cat for that reason but he was a child when he did it. As everyone knows kids do stupid things sometimes.SunriseDesire said:
The frog was killed as part of a magical ceremony and he eat it afterwards. You may not like it but the sacrifice of animals is as old mankind and still continues to this day in various religions.
Not quite ? At the end of a holiday in the far east Crowley arranged for his wife and child to return to England via India while he journeyed on in the opposite direction to New York. Unfortunately Crowley's daughter caught typoid and died.SunriseDesire said:
Yes he was living in pretty squalid conditions at that time. But people with no money sometimes have no choice do they?SunriseDesire said:
His fortune was long gone by that time. The fact that Crowley was a heroin addict at various times in his life needs a word of explanation. For a significant part of his life Crowley suffered with cronic asthma. In his day the standard treatment was heroin. That sounds shocking to us today but in his day that is all that could be done. And it goes without saying, if you take heroin you stand a good chance of getting hooked. Crowley's diaries are full of frustration on this point. Shortly before World War 2 a german medication became available to Crowley. With this medication allowing him to breath normally Crowley cured himself of his heroin addiction. How many junkies can boast that ? Unfortunately with the outbreak of World War 2 this new medication became unavailable. Crowley's doctor once again prescribed him heroin. This didn't stop Crowley leading an active social life while writing many more lucid and brilliant books and reams of correspondence. Hardly the life of a raving junkie as some people like to describe him in his last years.
Why not forget the rumours and get yourself one of the very good, balanced new biographies that have been written in the last few years. You still might not like Crowley afterwards but at least your dislike will be based on fact and not hearsay and rumour.
Cerulean
Thanks for the information posted in response to the questions...
Kraw wrote:
The correspondences he developed himself I think. You'll find looking in his diaries he consulted the Yi King often, frequently on a daily basis; he was very influenced by and a great admirer of Taoism. He wrote his own little booklet of Yi King interpretations of the hexagrams, relying on the Legge version I think.
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Thanks very much for the insight! I was wondering what translations Crowley would have had available to him in regards to the I-Ching, whether he read French or English translations of Taoist texts and who were the translators.
I've only looked so far at Crowley's appendix on I-Ching in the Book of Thoth, and not throroughly yet.
I'm just beginning to explore 'historic' translations of Lao Tse and I-Ching interpretations and different period translations have such different flavors. Once in a poetry workshop, the teacher had three different translations from three different time periods (1950's, 1990's, and perhaps one much earlier)...and one American gentleman who studied Manderin and whose wife is Chinese said his feel of the Lao Tsu texts were so different from each translation.
Thanks again for the references,
Cerulean
Kraw wrote:
The correspondences he developed himself I think. You'll find looking in his diaries he consulted the Yi King often, frequently on a daily basis; he was very influenced by and a great admirer of Taoism. He wrote his own little booklet of Yi King interpretations of the hexagrams, relying on the Legge version I think.
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Thanks very much for the insight! I was wondering what translations Crowley would have had available to him in regards to the I-Ching, whether he read French or English translations of Taoist texts and who were the translators.
I've only looked so far at Crowley's appendix on I-Ching in the Book of Thoth, and not throroughly yet.
I'm just beginning to explore 'historic' translations of Lao Tse and I-Ching interpretations and different period translations have such different flavors. Once in a poetry workshop, the teacher had three different translations from three different time periods (1950's, 1990's, and perhaps one much earlier)...and one American gentleman who studied Manderin and whose wife is Chinese said his feel of the Lao Tsu texts were so different from each translation.
Thanks again for the references,
Cerulean
wandking
Awww come on...
Aeon418, Let's not kill every rumor with facts. It takes all the fun out of Crowley. How about that one where he was conjuring a demon at the exact time his son died, causing him to commit suicide? He did, I seem to remember, send a whole legion of demons after Mathers but that's another matter. Besides, rumor has it that Mathers sent an astral vampire first!
Aeon418, Let's not kill every rumor with facts. It takes all the fun out of Crowley. How about that one where he was conjuring a demon at the exact time his son died, causing him to commit suicide? He did, I seem to remember, send a whole legion of demons after Mathers but that's another matter. Besides, rumor has it that Mathers sent an astral vampire first!
Aeon418
What about the rumour that says he sunk Titanic. There's got to be a grain of truth in that one. No rumour is too stupid when talking about Crowley.
Aeon418
But the point is it's these same half truths and lies that stop people from working with one of the most amazing decks in the history of tarot, the Thoth deck.wandking said:
Babylon_Jasmine
Lillie said:
I have spent a lot of time with both Heroin addicts and Alchoholics and I agree that, assuming they have their drug, I prefer Junkies to drunks. On the other hand I feel addictions of any kind are a sign of a weak will and Crowley prided himself on the strength of his will. As far as violence, yes, Alcohol is a bad one, I would say that Methamphetemines are worse. I could also see Crowley enjoying meth, as he did enjoy Cocaine, but that is pure speculation.
