le pendu
Introduction - Contrasting the Dodal and Conver
Welcome
Welcome to a new, informal study of two of the most influential TdM (Tarot of Marseilles) decks that have been passed down to us over the centuries. Most TdM decks, both historical and modern, display an association to these two decks, and by studying them, we hope to gain a better understanding of the development of the influences that have contributed to "Tarot" as we know it today.
[See the Forum Table of Contents for existing threads]
The forum moderators (jmd and le pendu) hope that by exploring these wonderful decks a deeper appreciation and understanding of the TdM may be realized by the study participants.
We've chosen the decks by Jean Dodal and Nicolas Conver because, while they are very similar in their iconography, they may also represent two distinct "patterns". One of the goals of this study is to determine if they do indeed represent two "streams" of the TdM pattern, but mostly, we hope to increase our understanding of the TdM and appreciation for the contributions that early deck creators have passed on to us hundreds of years later in the 21st Century.
Hopefully, by comparing and contrasting these decks, we will gain a better understanding of the evolution of the TdM (and its "relations"), and have a deeper appreciation of the subtleties that define this tradition, and its subsequent patterns.
Some assumptions before we begin:
Neither deck is THE "true" TdM.
When discussing the TdM, it's tempting to believe that there is a "true" TdM on which all others are based. While this may be true, we assume that neither the Dodal nor the Conver fully represent the essence of TdM, nor that they entirely reflect an earlier, "Standard" pattern. Rather, we assume that they are both modified manifestations of an earlier source, with adaptations by their creators reflecting both personal inclinations, technological restrictions, and standard iconography of their time.
Neither Jean Dodal nor Nicolas Conver created the pattern they exhibit.
It is almost certain that both of these decks are based on the works of earlier card-makers. As we explore the iconography, we will most probably see influences from decks that predate both the Dodal and the Conver. We will also see how influential these patterns are, as they were duplicated and modified for centuries after they were created.
Reasons for the study:
A deeper understanding and appreciation for the "patterns' that we know as TdM
By examining, contrasting, and exploring these early decks, we will reach a deeper understanding of the tarot tradition that has been passed down to us.
A better understanding of the iconography that influenced decks in the 1700's, but also the effects of the iconography of these decks on modern decks
When we evaluate other decks of the period, we often turn to the TdM as a guidepost. Even today, many decks are based on these patterns (Kris Hadar, Camoin-Jodorowsky, and Rodes-Sanchez for example). By understanding the influences that shaped the TdM, and by recognizing that each of these are valid and contributative in their own way, we will gain the abililty to recognize patterns as well as appreciate the differences that each early deck contributes to our understanding of "Tarot" today.
We sincerely hope that these discussions will be interesting and informative. We invite everyone to participate, as we believe the more of us that are involved in the study, the greater the probability that we will all learn from the experience.
We hope that by focusing on the actual detailed imagery of the cards, everyone, no matter how experienced, will be able to contribute to this exploration.
Please ask any questions you may have about this study, or any suggestions that might make it more useful to the group.
best,
robert (le pendu), and jmd.
Welcome
Welcome to a new, informal study of two of the most influential TdM (Tarot of Marseilles) decks that have been passed down to us over the centuries. Most TdM decks, both historical and modern, display an association to these two decks, and by studying them, we hope to gain a better understanding of the development of the influences that have contributed to "Tarot" as we know it today.
[See the Forum Table of Contents for existing threads]
The forum moderators (jmd and le pendu) hope that by exploring these wonderful decks a deeper appreciation and understanding of the TdM may be realized by the study participants.
We've chosen the decks by Jean Dodal and Nicolas Conver because, while they are very similar in their iconography, they may also represent two distinct "patterns". One of the goals of this study is to determine if they do indeed represent two "streams" of the TdM pattern, but mostly, we hope to increase our understanding of the TdM and appreciation for the contributions that early deck creators have passed on to us hundreds of years later in the 21st Century.
Hopefully, by comparing and contrasting these decks, we will gain a better understanding of the evolution of the TdM (and its "relations"), and have a deeper appreciation of the subtleties that define this tradition, and its subsequent patterns.
Some assumptions before we begin:
Neither deck is THE "true" TdM.
When discussing the TdM, it's tempting to believe that there is a "true" TdM on which all others are based. While this may be true, we assume that neither the Dodal nor the Conver fully represent the essence of TdM, nor that they entirely reflect an earlier, "Standard" pattern. Rather, we assume that they are both modified manifestations of an earlier source, with adaptations by their creators reflecting both personal inclinations, technological restrictions, and standard iconography of their time.
Neither Jean Dodal nor Nicolas Conver created the pattern they exhibit.
It is almost certain that both of these decks are based on the works of earlier card-makers. As we explore the iconography, we will most probably see influences from decks that predate both the Dodal and the Conver. We will also see how influential these patterns are, as they were duplicated and modified for centuries after they were created.
Reasons for the study:
A deeper understanding and appreciation for the "patterns' that we know as TdM
By examining, contrasting, and exploring these early decks, we will reach a deeper understanding of the tarot tradition that has been passed down to us.
A better understanding of the iconography that influenced decks in the 1700's, but also the effects of the iconography of these decks on modern decks
When we evaluate other decks of the period, we often turn to the TdM as a guidepost. Even today, many decks are based on these patterns (Kris Hadar, Camoin-Jodorowsky, and Rodes-Sanchez for example). By understanding the influences that shaped the TdM, and by recognizing that each of these are valid and contributative in their own way, we will gain the abililty to recognize patterns as well as appreciate the differences that each early deck contributes to our understanding of "Tarot" today.
We sincerely hope that these discussions will be interesting and informative. We invite everyone to participate, as we believe the more of us that are involved in the study, the greater the probability that we will all learn from the experience.
We hope that by focusing on the actual detailed imagery of the cards, everyone, no matter how experienced, will be able to contribute to this exploration.
Please ask any questions you may have about this study, or any suggestions that might make it more useful to the group.
best,
robert (le pendu), and jmd.