five of pentacles

The_Star

5 of Pentacles

gilded goat said:
can anyone out there answer me this one?
the five of pentacles is quite a sad looking card and yet astrologically its nature is mercury in taurus which gives it virtually the opposite meaning to the tarot one!.I mean mercury in taurus is sociable and friendly also it is said to have good business sense whereas the five is loss and destitution etc.
all help gratefully recieved

The 'impoverishment' depicted by the RWS 5 of Pentacles has little to do with finance. The card represents an impoverishment of spirit.
Ultimately, The Tarot gradually teaches us that all wealth comes from within and that our external circumstances are but a reflection of inner conditions.
A secondary consideration is that the couple depicted on the card are 'outside' of the church or sanctuary (related to # 5 The Hierophant) representing the 'higher teachings' regarding putting one's faith and trust in 'something higher' to always provide the necessities of life.

The couple depicted on the card may as well be millionaires but without a divine connection they are, for all intents and purposes, paupers!

kwaw

star-lover said:
how is the first decan of taurus ruled by mercury, i thought it was venus
i dont know anything about the golden dawn, so maybe their system was different to the traditional decanate rulerships

lol

Mercury is the traditional ruler of the first decan of Taurus. Why do you think it is venus? Where do you get that from? As I said, it is easy to remember because it follows the days of the week [all being connected with planetary hours]. For example, the first decan of Aries is ruled by Mars [Ruler of the first planetary hour of Tuesday], the first decan of Taurus [the next sign after Aries] is ruled by Mercury [Ruler of the first planetary hour of Wednesday]. Don't know how old you think things needs to be to be traditional, but references to the planetary hours and days of the week are found on pompei graffiti, certainly not an invention of the Golden Dawn.

Are you confusing rulership of the decans with the signs? Venus is ruler of Taurus and Libra, but we are talking here of the decans [10 degree segments of the signs]. Venus is ruler of Taurus, but Mercury, Moon and Saturn of the first, second and third decans of Taurus. Another type of rulership has it that the first decan is taurus of taurus, the second virgo of taurus, the third capricorn of taurus: but this is an Indian format introduced into western astrology by theosophists in the 20th century: though known about in medieval westen astrology it was never really used [in fact the 2nd cent. asttrological author macrobius, a western astrological authority in medieval times, uses a totaly different, non-elemental attribution of sign to decan correpondences].

Kwaw

star-lover

as far as i know the first decanate of any sign is ruled by the traditional ruler of the sign in this case taursus=venus and the second decanate is ruled by the ruler of the next triplicity...for taurus that is virgo - mercury and the last triplicity of taurus is capricorn - hence saturn

thats what i have always learnt
i guess thers more than 1 system going on here

kwaw

star-lover said:
as far as i know the first decanate of any sign is ruled by the traditional ruler of the sign in this case taursus=venus and the second decanate is ruled by the ruler of the next triplicity...for taurus that is virgo - mercury and the last triplicity of taurus is capricorn - hence saturn

thats what i have always learnt

That is a misapplication of the Indian system that was introduced and became popular in western astrology through theosophical astrologers in the 20th century. In western traditional astrology it follows the so called 'chaldean' order of planets [same as in the order of planetary hours, based upon apparent mean motion]. Also to say Aries of Aries, Leo of Aries and Sag of Aries is sort of right but to go from that to for example Mars, Sun and Jupiter in Aries is a misconception or at least gross simplification bordering on error. All a part of 20th century simplified crap having very little to do with either western or eastern traditional astrology and very much to do with hack creations for newspapers and Llewlellyn type publications by journalists with little knowledge of astrology at all, but which cover the shelfs of the bookshop. Not your fault that is what you have learnt, thats all the popular bookshelf offers, unfortunately it is full of errors [and most of the time you go to teachers and they repeat the same errors, that having read and taught themselves on, they merely repeat the same pop bookshelf stuff and having read such consider themselves expert enough to teach others - and a new 'tradition' is born].

Kwaw

star-lover

well kwaw you are right i only go by what i read repeatedly as a student of astrology
and that was the tradition i knew in astrology re the decans
as far as i am concerned there is truth in astrology and i dont care if it comes from chaldeans indians egyptians greeks or whatever
just wish they would all make their minds up to agree

The_Star

Mercury

star-lover said:
i dont like to challenge authority normally because in the main i fall flat on my face but i can't help wondering

how is this astro-tarot correspondence worked out?
i can see coins being earth signs hence taurus according to the elements
but where does the 5 come into it being mercury - thought mercury was the magician or the ones then
confused

The Magician is concealed behind every card. The association of Mercury with the 5 of Pentacles suggests that there is an 'issue' with the mental focus or belief of the couple depicted in the card.
The Magician can have negative or positive beliefs that work for or against him/her.
Part of The Tarot as a 'path' is for us to notice and then to correct 'errors' relating to our use of creative power.

This suggests that the 5 of Pentacles represents an impoverished condition that is directly caused by a problematic mindset (Mercury).

If the Magician believes that he or she is 'broke' then it becomes so!
The Magician then enters into the 5 of Pentacles context. A situation that can gradually be corrected by changing one's mind / beliefs.

kwaw

star-lover said:
well kwaw you are right i only go by what i read repeatedly as a student of astrology
and that was the tradition i knew in astrology re the decans
as far as i am concerned there is truth in astrology and i dont care if it comes from chaldeans indians egyptians greeks or whatever
just wish they would all make their minds up to agree

Doesn't matter who is right or wrong star-lover, I don't want to get into any argument about right or wrong, lets just say there are different systems. The question is about 5 pentacles in the GD tradition. In that tradition they used 'chaldean' system, it is a perfectly traditional system, lets not 'lol' becuase it is a different system, or make claims that it is false and non-tradtitional because it is a different system to what others or ourselves may use. It is the traditional system they used, lets judge it and explain it upon that basis. Whether it is different or not, it goes back to ancient times and is worth judgeing and explaining within its own terms of reference, without mockery or quick judgements. Don't be quick to judge that a system you are unfamiliar with is without tradition, especially when it may prove to be the other way round.

Kwaw

firecatpickles

star-lover said:
how is the first decan of taurus ruled by mercury

star-lover said:
...how is this astro-tarot correspondence worked out?

I got this off of a post here, but I can't remember where it came from. I think a tarot society in England...

kwaw

star-lover said:
just wish they would all make their minds up to agree

Well most of your pop bookshelf journalists do agree. Unfortunately that is because they merely replicate each other and copy each others errors.

Kwaw

star-lover

kwaw said:
Doesn't matter who is right or wrong star-lover, I don't want to get into any argument about right or wrong, lets just say there are different systems. The question is about 5 pentacles in the GD tradition. In that tradition they used 'chaldean' system, it is a perfectly traditional system, lets not 'lol' becuase it is a different system, or make claims that it is false and non-tradtitional because it is a different system to what others or ourselves may use. It is the traditional system they used, lets judge it and explain it upon that basis. Whether it is different or not, it goes back to ancient times and is worth judgeing and explaining within its own terms of reference, without mockery or quick judgements. Don't be quick to judge that a system you are unfamiliar with is without tradition, especially when it may prove to be the other way round.

Kwaw

yes there are different systems and i dont purport to be an expert on any of them or know any truth

i wasnt mocking or judging
i just questioned ok???

five of pentacles

The_Star

kwaw

star-lover

kwaw

star-lover

The_Star

kwaw

firecatpickles

Attachments

kwaw

star-lover