jmd
Just to pick up on earlier comments and then some other reflections which I do not recall on the thread.
When I mention the iconographic resemblance to the annunciation, I do not in any way wish to imply that this is an image (and homage) only to Mary mother of Jesus in her virginal state - rather, that there is an element which fits quite well here. The Magdelene, especially as she is increasingly understood in revisionist history (rather than as she may likely have been understood during late mediaeval and renaissance times) also, it seems to me, fits into aspects of this card.
I have mentioned, if not here, than in the Qabalah Forum, that I too personally connect this card to an aspect of the Moon (through Yesod). The card itself, however, only does this quite indirectly.
Deepening one's sensing into this card may or may not lead to aspects of the Moon (though, as a seated Woman, I cannot see how one can avoid lunar qualities).
Ihcoyc mentions (and links) that wonderfully similar image by Vermeer of what is later (?) referred to as the Allegory of Faith (one I had not, incidentally, noted before, and am very grateful for). Certainly, again, it would seem difficult to avoid encountering the sense of Faith as one reflects upon this card. Is it, however, an essential quality, or one which has numerous manifestations, one of which is as the Book held by the Papess?
Of the egg on this card, it seems to me that Camoin & Jodorowsky just plain made a 'mistake'. Whereas the egg below the shielded 'eagle' upon IIII the Emperor seems so apt and actually there in muted ambiguities on earlier decks, the Papess's just doesn't either seem to belong, nor to really have been present auparavant.
Of course, any additional detail may be added, and one may, with reflection, discover meaningfulness therein. However, again, it seems that with this card, they are superimposed upon something quite self-contained in the classical representation.
The white face, however, does seem meaningful in late mediaeval/early renaissance iconography, in depicting, semingly, virginal beauty.
What is perhaps, again, more significant and not normally commented upon is the structure in the bottom left-hand corner of the card (even reproduced, albeit not well, in the Camoin) - a structure I mentioned earlier, and especially noticeable in the Dodal - which I do not seem to have previously attached, and thus here finally add!!!
Of iconographic significance, and mentioned in a number of books (and not just those focussing on the Marseilles) is the sequence of standing Bateleur and seated Papess.
As the carnal aspect has been mentioned a number of times (including by myself more indirectly with reference to Yesod), one can also ask of what consists the spiritual ecstasy which may be aided by 'redirecting' those energies. The curtain that separates the sexual and the spiritual has oft been said to be thin indeed.
When I mention the iconographic resemblance to the annunciation, I do not in any way wish to imply that this is an image (and homage) only to Mary mother of Jesus in her virginal state - rather, that there is an element which fits quite well here. The Magdelene, especially as she is increasingly understood in revisionist history (rather than as she may likely have been understood during late mediaeval and renaissance times) also, it seems to me, fits into aspects of this card.
I have mentioned, if not here, than in the Qabalah Forum, that I too personally connect this card to an aspect of the Moon (through Yesod). The card itself, however, only does this quite indirectly.
Deepening one's sensing into this card may or may not lead to aspects of the Moon (though, as a seated Woman, I cannot see how one can avoid lunar qualities).
Ihcoyc mentions (and links) that wonderfully similar image by Vermeer of what is later (?) referred to as the Allegory of Faith (one I had not, incidentally, noted before, and am very grateful for). Certainly, again, it would seem difficult to avoid encountering the sense of Faith as one reflects upon this card. Is it, however, an essential quality, or one which has numerous manifestations, one of which is as the Book held by the Papess?
Of the egg on this card, it seems to me that Camoin & Jodorowsky just plain made a 'mistake'. Whereas the egg below the shielded 'eagle' upon IIII the Emperor seems so apt and actually there in muted ambiguities on earlier decks, the Papess's just doesn't either seem to belong, nor to really have been present auparavant.
Of course, any additional detail may be added, and one may, with reflection, discover meaningfulness therein. However, again, it seems that with this card, they are superimposed upon something quite self-contained in the classical representation.
The white face, however, does seem meaningful in late mediaeval/early renaissance iconography, in depicting, semingly, virginal beauty.
What is perhaps, again, more significant and not normally commented upon is the structure in the bottom left-hand corner of the card (even reproduced, albeit not well, in the Camoin) - a structure I mentioned earlier, and especially noticeable in the Dodal - which I do not seem to have previously attached, and thus here finally add!!!
Of iconographic significance, and mentioned in a number of books (and not just those focussing on the Marseilles) is the sequence of standing Bateleur and seated Papess.
As the carnal aspect has been mentioned a number of times (including by myself more indirectly with reference to Yesod), one can also ask of what consists the spiritual ecstasy which may be aided by 'redirecting' those energies. The curtain that separates the sexual and the spiritual has oft been said to be thin indeed.