78 Weeks: Five Swords

jmd

To find out what these threads refer to, please seeThe link above provides suggested dates and links to all threads for this study.

Some amongst us may be working through the deck in a different order, and using different decks.

For more general comments or questions about the 78 weeks, please post in the thread linked above.

Enjoy!
 

CreativeFire

5 of Swords

continuing on with the study ;)

5 of Swords

Now the 5 of Swords has always been one of those few cards that I continually struggle with in a deck - from understanding to interpreting in a reading, so I have been giving this one quite a bit of thought of late for this study.

Again using my Universal Waite as a base, and also looking at a few other decks imagery.

First thoughts on looking at this card is that there has obviously been some sort of strife or fight by the look of the swords on the ground and the defeated body languange of the people walking away in the background. But what surprises me a bit is the sort of smug look on the man in the foreground holding the other 3 swords - almost like he has taken the swords from them but also something more - could it be dignity, or even trust and honour as well.

The clouds in this card also attract my attention, in that they have a very jagged and uneven look about them streaked across the sky - which I sort of connected also to the scene below.

Looking at this card as a whole I also thought that there are times in life when you are not able to successfully negotiate an agreeable outcome for everyone involved, and there may be winners and losers and it can depend on which way you are viewing this card - as a victor or as the defeated. But either way, disharmony is not something that we should want to go out of our way to achieve, as there are usually losses on both sides - some more painful than others that may take a long time to heal, if at all. So this card makes me think that during these times try and look that bit harder for peace, but if you have no other choice except to battle - don't forget what it is like to lose if you win.

CF
 

gregory

Five of Swords - Revelations Tarot

First impressions
Harakiri !

From the artist’s website
Upright

He performs the ritual of suicide as a result of his failure.

Reversed
Great sorrow is wept from her eyes as she grieves a great loss and failure of her own accord.

Images and Symbolism
The Japanese themed images reflect upon the magnitude of which failure can cause upon ones psyche.
The "hara kiri"-esque ritual of suicide through dishonor or failure adds a certain dimension of a mental process which had to be played out before performing the actual act. It is calculated and planned, and not merely an emotional reaction.

The reversed side shows a Japanese woman in deep mournful sorrow. Here her despair is related to the death of the man on the upside.

Colour: electric blues, turquoise - associated with Aquarius

Traditional meanings
Upright:

Defeat must be experienced-before future success can be contemplated. Swallow pride and accept what must be.
Reversed:
Striving after a goal which is lost. Stubborn waste.

My impressions:
Upright
A woman – who almost appears to have angel wings – stabs herself of the gut. Her clothes are blue-green (that colour people argue about – is it blue or is it green…..) and her waist-where she is stabbing- is wound around with a wide gold belt. Her sleeves are enormously wide. Her expression is completely blank. There are two swords behind her – one hilt pointing up from each shoulder.
Reversed
Another woman – weeping ostentatiously, holds her upturned face in her hands. She is clothed in green, and she too has two hilts pointing up from her shoulders. She at least shows emotion.

My take
This is a really unpleasant card. The upright image is killing herself with total disinterest. It doesn’t even look as if it will – or is expected to – achieve anything. I can’t help suspecting she is doing it in that charming frame of mind we all sometimes get – “If I die tomorrow THEN they’ll all be sorry” – but that never really gives people the chance. And when we feel like that, we keep in the back of our minds the happy prospect of watching them all at the funeral, eulogising and wishing we were still here for them. It doesn’t work like that – but I think that is the sort of frame of mind she is in. I suspect no-one will care when she’s gone- maybe she was a controlling parent, a dictatorial boss ?
The reverse image has some emotion, at least – but it looks fearfully staged. “Look at me, I’m SOOOOOOOOOOOOO unhappy.” I don’t think it is a plea for sympathy as such, more a showing off. “I did all this for you and this is how you repay me; I have been wonderful and you treat me like this – and just LOOK what it has all done to me. ARE YOU WATCHING ME SUFFER ? PAY ATTENTION !” Total self pity and self-absorption.
The card has that aspect in both portrayals – self-pity. That really is about the size of it.
A pull yourself together, other people don’t have to be nice to you, you have to earn it, and you won’t do that by wailing and self-harming. Now that is a “modern” twist that might be involved here, I think – eating disorders, self harm and the like. Even drugs – they too are often a way to try and get attention – but perhaps not in such a controlling way. I may be being unfair here; some cries for attention need to be heard – but in this card, I feel they are more tantrum-like. The kind of parent who tries to force her children to stay home and look after her, who “becomes ill” as soon as she hears they are engaged to be married.

Ugh…..

I feel bad; the book is nowhere near as negative ! It refers to real failures and losses and reactions to them. But I really hate this card.


All the cards from this deck can be viewed here.
 

gregory

Thoth

Card name: Five of Swords

First impressions

Five curved swords with forty-nine (I cheated) rose petals between them make a reversed pentacle. The background is full of the geometric designs that Frieda refers to as the crystals on every Swords card. The colours of the background shift from green and blue at the base to purply-pink and blue at the top. Sigils of Venus and Aquarius. Venus has a bright red centre; Aquarius is almost subsumed by being almost the same colour as the background behind it. The swords – again – have very different hilts: a crown, a green serpent and a ring; a blue-ish fish; a sort of red flame, and the number 6 in blue.

From the Book of Thoth
THE FOUR FIVES

In the “Naples arrangement”, the introduction of the number Five shows the idea of motion coming to the aid of that of matter. This is quite a revolutionary conception; the result is a complete upset of the statically stabilized system. Now appear storm and stress.

This must not be regarded as something “evil”. The natural feeling about it is really a little more than the reluctance of people to get up from lunch and go back to the job. In the Buddhist doctrine of Sorrow this idea is implicit, that inertia and insensitiveness must characterize peace. The climate of India is perhaps partly responsible for this notion. The Adepts of the White School, of which the Tarot is the sacred book, cannot agree to such a simplification of existence. Every phenomenon is a sacrament. For all that, a disturbance is a disturbance; the five of Wands is called Strife.

The Five of Swords is similarly troublesome; the card is called Defeat. There has been insufficient power to maintain the armed peace of the Four. The quarrel has actually broken out. This must mean defeat, for the original idea of the Sword was a manifestation of the result of the love between the Wand and the Cup. It is because the birth had to express itself in the duality of the Sword and the Disk that the nature of each appears so imperfect.
DEFEAT FIVE OF SWORDS
Geburah, as always, produces disruption; but as Venus here rules Aquarius, weakness rather than excess of strength seems the cause of disaster. The intellect has been enfeebled by sentiment. The defeat is due to pacifism. Treachery also may be implied.

The hilts of the swords form the inverted pentagram, always a symbol of somewhat sinister tendency. Here matters are even worse; none of the hilts resembles any of the others, and their blades are crooked or broken. They give the impression of drooping; only the lowest of the swords points upwards, and this is the least effective of the weapons. The rose of the previous card has been altogether disintegrated.

The historian is happy to observe two perfect illustrations of the mode of this card and the last in the birth of the Aeon of (1) Osiris, (2) Horus. He will note the decay of such Virtue as characterized Sparta and Rome, ending in the establishment of the Pax Romana. As Virtue declined, corruption disintegrated the Empire from within. Epicene cults, such as those of Dionysus (in its degraded form), of Attis, of Adonis, of Cybele, the false Demeter and the prostituted Isis, replaced the sterner rites of the true Solar- Phallic gods; until finally (the masters having lost the respect, and so the control, of the plebs, native and alien) the lowest of all the slave-cults, dressed up in the fables of the vilest of the parasitic races, swept over the known world, and drenched it in foul darkness for five hundred years. He will delight to draw close parallels with the cognate phenomena displayed before the present generation.

Images and Symbolism

Frieda Harris says in her essays:

Five of Swords = Defeat. Geburah in the suit of Air. Venus in Aquarius.
The hilts of the swords form an inverted pentagram and are diverse, the blades broken and crooked, typifying intellect enfeebled by sentiment.

Also:
Five of Swords = Defeat. Venus in Aquarius. Geburah.
The swords form an inverted pentagram. They are crooked and broken and the roses are falling. The condition shown is intellect weakened by sentiment.
Banzhaf reminds us that the inverted pentagram is the symbol of black magic, which is an indicator of the sinister nature of this card. The petals are those of the rose on the four, which has disintegrated. The symbol of love and emotion is shredded by the swords of the intellect, as Snuffin puts it. However, there is light radiating from the centre of the pentagram; the mind can win out and learn from this.
Snuffin points out that the lowest point on the pentagram has the hilt with the crown – which signifies spirit – suggesting that spirit has been broken and overcome by the other elements – the blade of that sword is also broken. The flame, serpent and fish are fire, earth and water, and the 6 is the number of Tiphareth and Vau – Air. The card is attributed to Geburah in Yetzirah – Venus is overcome by Mars (Geburah), hence the red centre.
The background colouration indicates the green of Venus and the colours of Aquarius in the four worlds – violet, sky blue, blue-mauve and white with a hint of purple.
DuQuette sees all the swords as damaged. I can’t see it. He refers to the pentagram as the Pentagram of Defeat, and points out that some of the geometric figures in the background form swastikas. He says that this card was painted at the height of England’s struggle with Nazi Germany, and speculates that Frieda was projection magical defeat on the enemy – consciously or unconsciously.
However he then goes on to say that while the inverted pentagram, is popularly held to be an evil symbol, “it is the pinnacle of superstition to believe that any symbol, in and of itself, can be either good or evil. The averse pentagram can be used to symbolize an infinite number of perfectly innocuous concepts.” This seems slightly disingenuous of him, as it seems to me that at other points in his writing he does exactly this with other symbols. However, as one who knows an inverse pentagram on a church wall, I can buy into it.
He does however say that in this card, that pentagram does “mean trouble”.

Meaning (cribbed from Wasserman)
Defeat. Loss. Malice. Spite. Weakness. Slander. Failure. Anxiety. Poverty. Dishonor. Trouble. Grieving after pain. Ties. Separator of friends. A busybody, cruel yet cowardly, evil speaking.

DuQuette
Defeat, loss. malice, spite, slander. evil-speaking
Contest finished and decided against the person; failure, defeat, anxiety, trouble, poverty, avarice, grieving after gain, laborious, unresting; loss and vileness of nature; malicious, slanderous, lying, spiteful and tale-bearing. A busybody and separator of friends, hating to see peace and love between others. Cruel, yet cowardly, thankless and unreliable. Clever and quick in thought and speech. Feelings of pity easily roused, but unenduring.

Traditional meanings – From Thirteen’s book of meanings:
FIVES
As fours were about stability and maintaining what you have built up, the fives are about instability and the loss of at least some of what you have. Five is the number of severity and fear but also strength. Hence, it's no surprise that the Fives seem to pose both a severe problem, and a way to escape the fear felt at facing that problem.
Dealing with this upset in the development of our passion, emotion, idea or work humbles, teaches and matures us. It isn't a pleasant experience, and our pride, especially, is likely to suffer, but it does strengthen us.
Five of Swords
A smirking young man gathers up swords won in battle from two, humiliated losers. In arguments and battles of ideas there are going to be times when one just loses or has to surrender. The winner seen in this card has clearly been winning fights. Maybe fairly, maybe not, but it is clear that he has some advantage as well as the confidence that no one can beat him.
Pride can make us blind to our own limits and weaknesses. It can lure us into fights we weren't ready for, or weren't equal to winning. Most of the time, we probably knew it was a bad idea, yet we let ourselves be tricked, lured, or goated into fighting. And now we are dishonored.
The Question: "How can I survive this disgrace?"
The Answer: "By learning from it your weaknesses and limits."
Losses like this teach us to know ourselves and be better prepared for the next time. They teach us how and when to walk away from fights, which can often be harder than giving in, and so save ourselves from the greater damage of failure.
Note that this card in the future position can sometime teach this querent this lesson without making them go through it. A reader can say, "Don't let yourself get into a fight with this person, you will lose," and if the querent listens, they will avoid having to learn the hard way how to be strong and walk away from such fights.
(I include Thirteen’s meanings here, but the way, as while someone else was adding them to her Thoth posts, I found them enlightening in context, even though the descriptions are way different !)

My impressions (appearance of the card): The rose petals looked like blood to me – I would have thought that was what they were if I hadn’t read up. The swords also look as though they are arranged sort of like a rose. I still find all these geometric shapes in the background jarring and muddled, myself. I think DuQuette’s swastika thing is rather farfetched. But it certainly comes over as malign. I don’t like the colouration of the background either – but it’s not there for someone to LIKE !
The five swords look almost melted and weedy – as if they are being sucked down a drain…

My take (what I make of it/what I might see in a reading where I drew it)
Threats to the very heart of you. There will be pain; you will lose something that really matters to you. Life will seem chaotic. Be careful.