Interesting TdM Mold

These are wonderful.
There does seem to be a particular format with the hands on the baton for the Valet- no matter what block has been used. Left hand if it is Coins right hand if it is Batons. It is very formula throughout. Every suit symbol is held in the right hand.
What interests me me is that the Queen's crown looks like a pineapple crown- enough for me to go look at the History of the pineapple!
Loved it- you have patience to search for these images Robert! many thanks. They looked far more refined woodblocks than have been used for some decks- like all the cross hatching- that shows.
~Rosanne

Last One!!

The King of Coins

BN Mold and Drago



Noblet, Dodal, Chosson:


This was a surprise. When I first glanced at the Mold, I noticed "TdM I" (Noblet, Dodal, Payen, style) iconography right away. One of the "tell tale" signs of TdM I for me is always the King of Coin's "Fish Hat". It's always struck me as a little odd that Vieville, who usually shares a lot in common with the Noblet and Dodal, has a regular curved hat. Also, considering how similar most of the Drago cards have been, I was certainly expecting a fish hat. Alas... no fish hat!

I still can't quite figure out what is supposed to be happening under the hat, beside the King. Most of the other images imply a skullcap. There seems to be something pretty heavy in the Mold image. Looking at the Noblet, it could be a ball of grayed hair; but it still looks more prominent to me.

It's interesting that the Drago is the only image to show a coin floating beside the King.

Most of the other images imply some sort of buttons on his coat, the Mold has three very prominent ones.

Running beside the buttons is a rope like trim which seems (to me at least) to imply the area that has been pulled over to close his cape. It is a bit odd.

Overall, I love all the details in this image; the patterns in the chair, the patterns in the clothing. His crossed leg seems somewhat peculiar.

I've often wondered about the curved lines under the Drago King. Is is possibly more information about his throne? It's possible to imagine some similar lining under the Dodal. It's always struck me as very odd that we can clearly see the legs on the right of the throne, but not on the left; indeed, the King on the Noblet looks like a master of balance!

That's it!

I hope this has inspired you to post your comments.

What do you see?

What surprised you?

How do you imagine all of these things "fit together"?

Which were your favorites?

Has anything changed your mind about the iconography of the cards?

I must admit that when i looked at the images as le pendu was busily working on them for us all to see (and a huge thankyou for that effort!), the King of Coins was the main one that came to my attention.

Not only because of the hat... which to me perhaps begins to explain how it became that 'fish-tail' thingy, but also because I had noted before the consistency of the dual 'cord' held in his lap-hand without being able to make any real sense of it.

Here, it now seems to be a single rope-like thing looping all the way around him (I've highlighted it a little in blue).



Perhaps the fish-tail thingy can be seen in the first instance in the Drago as a fold of the hat which, with time, becomes increasingly lost as to its significant.

What's really quite strange is that large Tefillin-like item hanging by the side of his head... though here the very length of the 'rope' may even form part of this... especially as King of COINS.

Finally, in the lower left-hand section, it looks like the wheel of a Chariot that is in part depicted. Could this be a 'throne' on wheels?

Thanks for these Robert and for the work you put into scanning them all in for us to view. It will take several looks to do justice to these.

Going back to the Queen of Cups though, both the BN Mold and Drago show the Queen to either have shorter hair or that it is tied back in a variation of the twist.

I also think it is a window in the background of the card, which the Dodal could also be.

jmd said:

Here, it now seems to be a single rope-like thing looping all the way around him (I've highlighted it a little in blue).

Perhaps the fish-tail thingy can be seen in the first instance in the Drago as a fold of the hat which, with time, becomes increasingly lost as to its significant.

What's really quite strange is that large Tefillin-like item hanging by the side of his head... though here the very length of the 'rope' may even form part of this... especially as King of COINS.

Click to expand...

He is clearly being fed intravenously! Probably gout, the rich glutton!!


R
a
H

Its a Hookah!

Nice ones... gout undoubtedly!

Perhaps, if we compare it back against the King of Bastons, the desing above his shoulder and below his hat - that bluish thingy - is simply the top of his throne which only emerges above that side.

...and of course, I realise that the 'wheel-like' accentuation of mine is very likely more folded material - it's more that it looked a little strange and 'wheel-like'.

That is interesting jmd. You seem to have highlighted his scepter and you could continue the rod of it little further down as well, next to his sleeve and hand- he appears to have it in the crook of his arm. The rope is fascinating. Maybe that is King Gordius's Pole on his ox cart? When they made him King by mistake maybe they just stuck the scepter in his hand...It looks like a spinning spindle though.
Very interesting what ever this is. ~Rosanne

Donation Paul Marteau

Hello all,

This moud is part of Paul Marteau donation who was done in 1966.

On Vieux papier Bulletin Fascicule n° 219 from décember 1966 page453, it is said about it:

"Moule des lames majeures d'un jeu de tarots de marseille. XVIII e siècle"
"Mould of major arcanas from a Marseille Tarot deck. 18th century"

A highest quality definition scan would give us more details and I will target it.

Thanks Bob

It also shows us:

That TDM1 TDM 2 classification is useful but not enough to understand Tarot
Sometime Tarot cross Time in non logical ways.

That Conver is definitly not the best TDM model. Look for Pierre madenié or even Chosson or... much more other TDM.

That some cardmakers did not got all informations about important details (I also do agree with you Robert about horse legs on Knight for exemple) and add confusion about let's say... Tradition.
This last remarks is valuable for some past cardmakers (as Conver, Suzanne bernardin and other..) AND some present cardmakers (no name given of course )

Very important Thread that open tracks for future.

Have a working Sun...day

Yves le Marseillais