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thoth study or intuition????

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Alobar's Avatar
Alobar  Alobar is offline
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well that was certainly the easy way out.

you see the problem i have with those who only want to 'read' is that they're missing so many of the essential nuances involved in tarot.

but if one learns the tarot first... really learns the tarot, inside and out... then their reading skills and abilities will be enhanced manifold. and this requires study. deep, deep study.

of course that isn't as sexy as just reading. it certainly doesn't impreess one's friends nearly as much. but i guess i assumed that anyone who was into the Thoth deck was more in tune with these subtle nuances, more willing to dedicate themselves to what is probably the epitome of tarot thought.
i definitely wouldn't want to be shot into space by someone who was just intuitively plotting my launch. tarot is a science too. and like all sciences, study IS required.

if that's not so, then my mistake. i apologise.
Top   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alobar
you see the problem i have with those who only want to 'read' is that they're missing so many of the essential nuances involved in tarot.

but if one learns the tarot first... really learns the tarot, inside and out... then their reading skills and abilities will be enhanced manifold. and this requires study. deep, deep study.

...

i definitely wouldn't want to be shot into space by someone who was just intuitively plotting my launch. tarot is a science too. and like all sciences, study IS required.
What do you mean by learning tarot inside and out? Examples would be appreciated. Thanks.
Top   #12
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Unhappy thank you but....?


Thank you all for all your replies.
However, i do want to make clear that i did not intent nor wanted this thread to become a personal issue with some people. however, each one is free to say or do what they want.

blessed be

yaraluna
Top   #13
Alobar's Avatar
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learning the reason the cards represent what they do.
learning why the particular symbols occur where they do.
learning the related systems that have made the GOOD decks as important as they are.

the creators of these decks put alot of study into these symbols, and i think the least we can do is understand their motivation. otherwise the best we can hope for is a superficial understanding of the cards they created.

reading is NOT the be all and end all of tarot. if i may quote Paul Foster Case on the subject...
Quote:
"The Tarot is not a plaything, nor is it only a pack of cards designed for the purpose of fortune-telling, although this use of it has preserved it for serious students through the vissisitudes of time and change."
and also...
Quote:
"The Tarot is a textbook of occult teachings. It is intended for the use of serious students who are in search of spiritual enlightenment, and who are willing to devote a reasonable amount of time and thought to the discovery of the deeper meaning of life."
and then there is Robert Wang, the eminent tarot Qabalist...
Quote:
"The Tarot is a system of enlightenment, a system whose ultimate aim is assisting the individual in understanding his relationship to the Cosmos."
now both of these men are among the most respected authors on tarot, and they can certainly explain what i'm trying to say better than i.
but if you buy into the quotes above (and i find it hard not to), then you'll see what i mean when i say that study is vital with any tarot deck, and this one in particular.

purely intuitive reading is highly subjective, and therefore it is highly debateable. so what is the serious student supposed to take from all this ambiguity?


(edited for some really atrocious spelling errors)
Top   #14
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Re: thank you but....?


Quote:
Originally posted by yaraluna
Thank you all for all your replies.
However, i do want to make clear that i did not intent nor wanted this thread to become a personal issue with some people. however, each one is free to say or do what they want.
no worries m'dear, there is nothing personal going on here (at least i hope not). but it's hard to discuss differences of opinion without being, well... different!
Top   #15
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Alobar,

I'm not here to change your opinion, or to be persuaded by you to stop reading with Thoth because of some notion you may have that I'm somehow unworthy. (That was my impression from your post whether you intended it or not.)

Yaraluna's question was honestly asked, and answered with our varied opinions. I feel no need to justify mine. I read with the cards I want to read with. I encourage everyone to do the same.

Nevada
Top   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevada
I read with the cards I want to read with. I encourage everyone to do the same.
Agreed
Top   #17
Alobar's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevada
I'm not here to change your opinion, or to be persuaded by you to stop reading with Thoth because of some notion you may have that I'm somehow unworthy. (That was my impression from your post whether you intended it or not.)
that was most definitely NOT my intention, and i find it rather unfair of you to suggest it.
but whatever. i'm not easily offended, so let's just say you misunderstood.
Quote:
Yaraluna's question was honestly asked, and answered with our varied opinions. I feel no need to justify mine. I read with the cards I want to read with. I encourage everyone to do the same.
i feel no need to 'justify' mine either. if another point of view offends you, then i'm not sure what to say. but i also encourage everyone to read with whatever deck they wish. however, the choice of decks was not the question here, was it? the question was regarding studying a deck or just running off blindly, and i proffered my opinion on the subject (i thought that was the purpose of a 'study group').

you know, this is a wonderful site, one of the best on the web in fact. but i found myself posting here less and less because, for ALL the many forums at Aeclectic Tarot, there are none in which we can discuss the esoteric virtues of tarot. it seems very much like a 'readers only' club, and that's quite unfortunate, imo. but i thought that perhaps, just perhaps, those who could appreciate the Thoth tarot might be open to another opinion. was that my mistake?

oh well... this is not the purpose of this thread, so perhaps we can get back on topic now, that being "study or intuition". i've made my point quite clearly, i think.
Top   #18
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Alobar makes an important contribution which, I suspect, many of us agree with, when saying that study is vital with Tarot - ie, it provides the living waters into which Tarot may reflect its essence.

yaraluna also opens the thread with one of those ever so difficult questions - difficult not because of the various replies, but rather because answers need to somehow be phrased and explained within the constraints of a rather short-ish post. So, to the original question, viz:
  • 'Would I be missing a lot in my readings just by doing 'intuitive/previous knowledge of tarot' readings with it instead?'
the replies are probably that one may use any deck to read - and to read as deeply as one opens oneself up to the guidance of one's, to use GD terms, HGA. As such, it is not study per se, but 'Grace'.

In using any singular deck which incorporates consciously or unconsciously a vast store of symbolic intent, whether it be the apparently complex CH 'Thoth', the apparently simpler WCS, or the deceptively still 'simpler' (but in my view even deeper) Marseille, study - indeed prolonged esoteric work - will slowly unveil that which was never meant to be veiled to those who develop eyes to see and ears to hear.

This last is partly where I tend to agree with all comments previously made. As someone reads my (or others') posts, I presume that if a particular word is not known, a dictionary is used to assist in unravelling the meaning of the sentence in which that word is embedded. I would also presume that a similar process takes place with the ongoing investigation and usage of one's deck. This does not solely mean that reference to the creators of the deck is necessary, for the Platonic Solids, or projective geometry, or indeed the appearance of a winding staircase by a fall of water, may each better be unveiled by investigating works by others. Nonetheless, the works of the co-creators of a deck, when we have such, assists immensely to further deepen our understanding of the deck at hand.

Would somebody be missing anything in their readings by not studying the deck of its various symbolic content? Perhaps not. Perhaps, instead, they may be freed from the constraints from their intellect as it otherwise seeks to impose by its will by its loud voice over the silenced whispers of the still small voice within given the situation at hand... Perhaps...

But then, study also deepens not just knowledge, but, when applied, reflected on, meditated on, and integrated, it reaches the heights of insight from which understanding and wisdom may shine their glorious crowning rays.
Top   #19
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I don't think anyone has said that study isn't important nor is further knowledge of the cards.. I think what is under question here is can one read this deck without knowing the basics behind the meaning of the deck, I still stand behind my answer as yes. Intuition is key in any reading.. no matter what the books may say, its the reader that has to piece them together.

Why do I study Thoth if I use my intuition to read this deck? Because I would like to find deeper meanings into the cards and read what others have taken from them.. nothing more or less than that.. I have owned my first Thoth for a little over 10yrs.. when I began studying, I was very much over whelmed by the knowledge of the correspondences and references given.. One doesn't have to start there to read these cards at all. I understand the need for both opinions we've seen here, and I can respect them.. what I am trying to say is there is NO right or wrong way to read tarot (thoth or otherwise).
Top   #20




 


 


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