The Temperament Experiment

The so-called 'supine' temperament was developed out of entirely different fundaments than the four classical ones were: basically by seeking to understand inter-personal responses by apparent needs to be with others (or not), the sense of responsibility, and the sense of personal 'control' (Cf to these pages).

The whole orientation and division seems to me to be quite distinct, therefore, to the four classical temperaments.

We could of course also look at the Enneagramme or other personality typography. In fact, one can also view the MBTI as far more closely attuned to the four temperaments than the five-fold Arno Profile System (APS) (which seems to me, by the way, to differentiate more on character than on temperament).

jmd said:

The so-called 'supine' temperament was developed out of entirely different fundaments than the four classical ones were: basically by seeking to understand inter-personal responses by apparent needs to be with others (or not), the sense of responsibility, and the sense of personal 'control' (Cf to these pages).

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Cups, maybe? I couldn't assign them to any of the other four temperaments as described...

Summing Up Our Findings

Better late than never.

Looking back on the results of these polls, several thoughts come to mind. Given these results, and the historical evidence, and if we choose to use elemental associations with the tarot (which I personally do, as it adds a level of detail and depth far beyond any of the alternatives), the best choices for correlation seem quite obvious.

The poll showed the suit of Batons as the popular choice for Fire (Choleric). As Jmd pointed out,

jmd said:

Anyone that already presumes the most written correlations derived from the GD of fire and batons will very likely vote accordingly, as commonly described 'fire' like characteristics are used as descriptors.

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...and I would suggest that Swords would be the a more appropriate emblem for Elemental Fire as generally shown in emblem books. Here, again Fire, Sword, Lion forming a Choleric trio:





Likewise, among the Earthy qualities of the Melancholic like introspection, sensitivity, seriousness, logic, criticalness, depression, and withdrawal, also can be found a saturnine predisposition to studiousness, hard work, and a connection to nature which is expressed perfectly in the Baton being an instrument of husbandry and agriculture.

The traditional associations of the Phlegmatic temperament (frugal, cautious) with the merchant give us a clear connection to Coin. This can be seen in many of the common expressions describing money as a 'liquid'. Beyond this the total reliance of the sea trade for commerce and wealth in pre-modern times re-enforces the connection between wealth and water.

The Cup, being emblematic of sociability, pleasures, bonds and allegiances (marriage, the Eucharist, etc) also fits perfectly with the pleasure loving, sociable Sanguine. Furthermore the direct connection from Cup to Wine, Wine into Blood, Blood to Air is obvious.

So, as odd as it may seem, we have a set of four emblems which have a congruence, and historically provable relationship with the classical meanings of the four temperaments/elements, which Aeclectic members seemed to be at least partially in agreement about. This 'perfect match' also just happens to be identical with the earliest known written connection between card suits and the four elements, La Signification de l’ancien jeu des chartes pythagorique (1582) by Jean Gosselin.

Ah! Harmonia...


M

JMD: The point I was raising earlier is that the suits are not in and of themselves element, and neither are they, in and of themselves, temperament or humour. This does not prevent us from finding value in developing an understanding of temperamental inclinations and the ways in which these may be able emerge in a specific reading.

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This, I have to agree with. I've always had one or more problems with the 'elemental' designation of the suits. Many of the descriptions used for them, whether historical or modern, can be gleaned from the numeral/pip cards. Courts (for me) are perhaps more likely candidates for an 'elemental' designation.

Bee

Bernice said:

I've always had one or more problems with the 'elemental' designation of the suits.
Bee

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It is all a matter of how you look at it.

If one is "speaking the language" of the elements, the only situation in which the suits would not reflect one or another of the elements is if they had no characteristic at all. Any qualifying description one can make about the nature of a suit, will ultimately fall under the domain of one of the four elements.

Put simply, the elemental system is merely an index of qualities. If we assign to a suit a quality, any quality what-so-ever, we have assigned it an element. Whether or not we choose to call it an element is a different matter, though the quality will still remain.


M

Put simply, the elemental system is merely an index of qualities. If we assign to a suit a quality, any quality what-so-ever, we have assigned it an element. Whether or not we choose to call it an element is a different matter, though the quality will still remain.

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I wholheartedly agree . But I need to decide what those qualities are! Got to be broad enough to encompass fast/slow, thoughts/feelings/actons. Am now thinking the original Hot, Cold, Moist, and Dry are closer to the qualities I've been looking for.
And yes, it's a matter of the wording....

Bee
PS. Spelling's gone for a burton... time to eat!

Bernice said:

I wholheartedly agree . Got to be broad enough to encompass fast/slow, thoughts/feelings/actons.

Bee
PS. Spelling's gone for a burton... time to eat!

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Jeez... That's what I hate about these online 'virtual' communities, I can never 'just happen' to stop by right when supper is being served.

Yes, broad and encompassing, while also being precise and exacting... That's what I look for in a good predictive technique.


M