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ravenest's Avatar
Join Date: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 13,763

Originally Posted by gregory View Post
Look - Marcus drives me nuts at times. But he isn't a cheat; he is a bit of a snake oil salesman in a way - with the massive difference that you do get the snake oil. I have never paid for anything from him that I didn't receive. (Sure the publisher for the Waite book made a mess of it; that has happened to other here too - but the images and info were there.) I've been to all sorts of presentations in this life where you only got to hear something if you were there (including one of his, where we did indeed, and we also heard from some excellent speakers, members of this forum yet !) It's perfectly legit. Why have an event if you are going to put all the stuff in the papers anyway ? He hasn't done one single thing that someone else here hasn't also done, whether you like him or not.

I can't see that inventing a tarot world where people can wander around, meet others etc - a sort of virtual reality - which is what it sounds like - is plagiarising anything. There are so MANY virtual worlds out there. Why pick on this to castigate, just because it's an idea of Marcus' ?
Why make assumptions and put words in my mouth . I have noting to do with Marcus , know nothing about, have never been involved with him and have never written comments about him here , as many others have I know nothing of him except what I read you guys say here. YOy are the one saying stuff about him , not me !

Lets get clear on two points;

1. I am not criticising this idea because it came from Marcus at all . I have no idea how you came up with that. I am criticising AN IDEA , as some outlined here, that offers 'portals' and sending symbols back in time . And then pretending to now go back and find them - thats what I understood from reading the posts here. And then saying it can be called or excused by whatever term one wants to give it . Come on now !

Thats like saying I sent an ankh symbol back in time and I can find it all over the place in history . IF I understand correctly what people are saying and claiming.

2. If one cares to actually read what I wrote in context I preceded those comments with an 'either ' Alta suggested it might be meant to be humorous or silly , I responded with ;

yes ... either that , or as some call it , a scam or outright lie . 'Either' means something , thats why I used that word .

And I note this time travelling symbol fiasco has not been cleared up .... I for one will not be holding my breath until the 'mystery' is 'revealed' .

Originally Posted by gregory View Post
It isn't a scam; it's a project - one that I don't happen to be interested in, as virtual worlds leave me cold - but I think for those as likes them, it is exciting; I am not aware of another dealing with tarot, so people who like tarot and don't want to play medieval knight games, or on line wars etc might very well find it valuable.
Its a MARKETING project. My comments about 'EITHER that, or as some might call it' relate to alta saying silly and relate to the send the symbol back in time trip

And of course people making stuff will advertise and market it. How else do they make a living ? Are you going after the ad breaks on TV next ? If I see another ad for a payday loan I will spit - but....
Oh come on now ! Di payday moan adds say they sent a symbol back to another time ?

Originally Posted by gregory View Post
And one other thing. Ciro may be over sensitive and all the other personal insults some people (including me, on the over-sensitive bit - we have had some rows, I can tell you...) have leveled at him here.
I know nothing of this and am not interested in it .

Originally Posted by gregory View Post
But he is as honest as the day is long, and his digital art is complex and stunning. Second to none, I'd say. And if Marcus offers him the chance to use that art in a new and interesting way, why wouldn't he go for it - especially given the history of his own work that he has posted here. Whatever else, we know this thing will look amazing.
Good for them ! I like amazing artwork and tarot cards and symbolism .

Originally Posted by gregory View Post
Disclaimer: Yes, I like Ciro, a lot - but I don't speak up for anyone - even for my nearest and dearest - if they are into crap. (If you had heard some of what I recently said of my own daughter...) He isn't, here.

No-one has to back this. If you don't like it, for heaven's sake don't. But don't diss it in principle, just because Marcus is involved. There is EXTREMELY HEAVY marketing on this very forum by some members - and fair enough. Promotion is essential in this world. Sad but true.
Look, I dont care if it was Waite, Crowley, Wang or Raquel Welsh who came up with this send symbols back in time idea / ploy / joke/ whatever .... I would still be scoffing at it !

Can you get off this trip about me not liking some silly claim about sending things back in time ... and trying to change it to some supposed personal dislike I have of this Marcus guy ( which seems more of your pwn projections actually ) ?

Caaw! Arrk arrk arrrrrrrrr
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Old 3 Days Ago     Top   #61
ravenest's Avatar
Join Date: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 13,763

Originally Posted by cirom View Post
Actually this is an example of mistaken assumptions that gets retold and reinforced, and yet based on ignorance of the facts. There are people here who are not really interested in what this project is, they are merely trashing the organization behind it. Trying to find connections and then veiled accusations or plagerism of every work of fiction that comes to mind
Let's be quite clear here, I am not defending a friend, I make my judgement calls about people based on what I actually know, not just heresay. Over the years I have had a few business dealings with the Tarot Association, some commissioned work and speaking fees. On no occasion have I had reason to question those dealings. That is my personal reference, not third party on line gossip.
And what I know (as should anyone who has actually met Marcus and Tali) is that he tends to take the leading role is speaking and being more the public face of the relationship, because Tali has difficulty in speaking, she is limited by an extreme stutter, which is made worse by the additional nerves of attempting to speak publically. Yet her equal stautus in the relationship is clearly appreciated and understood.

Come on people, please stop with this character assasination.
Hi Cirom ... I dont know who you are, or who all these people are that are being talked and gossiped about . I dont go to these events and follow gossip about these personalities. I have heard reference to names and read occassional comments about them.

I was criticising , what now appears to be a marketing idea ... and that one part of it I mentioned.

Originally Posted by cirom View Post
All I'm asking is that you discuss the project not the man,
Thats what I was doing , and only 1 small part of it ..... someone else suggested that I was after this Marcus guy, for some reason ... but it turns out it seems them has some issue with him ?

Whatever ... I prefer to remove myself now from discussions when this sort of thing happens.

Originally Posted by cirom View Post
judge the project, positively or negatively once you have seen it. Don't just trash it because of who is behind it and do so before you even know exactly what it is. Some ridicule the marketing and claim it doesn't make sense to you, yet it's being discussed, which suggests to me that the marketing has worked. And hopefully so, years of work hinge on the fickle balance of a Kickstarter campaign, of course a lot of effort has gone into improving those chances.

Not only do phrases like "scam" and "outright lies" not have a place in a forum such as this. It's also borderline libelous in a legal sense, as such posts might indeed have their desired effect, namely to create doubt about the project. That is just not moral. Its also ironic in that those terms are how the majority of people in the world would describe the whole concept of tarot.
Note my 'either' qualifier . Thats how I feel about many projects, and the world of advertising (as I see it ) associated with most other types of advertising , for them, I would not qualifier it with an 'either' .

.... and I STILL have not found a simple spray on and wipe off shower or oven cleaner ... despite all the 'innovative and clever' marketing / advertising .

Caaw! Arrk arrk arrrrrrrrr
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Old 3 Days Ago     Top   #62
Golden Silvery Dionna
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Join Date: 06 Aug 2001
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 26,946

Ah well, I guess that's all that can be said.
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Old 3 Days Ago     Top   #63
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