Question on the 7 of cups

To me this card usually means negative emotion, which sometimes leads to addiction such as drugs and alcohol. It depends on the position of the card, and the context of the reading. Ex. If it reflected work situation it might point to someone being a workaholic.

There is also another slant to the illusions of happiness aspect. False promises and lies. Self-deception and deception from others.

Having tons of stuff in Scorpio including Venus, I've always gone with Debauch as "wallowing in your emotions" - that expresses the kind of sticky feeling that I see in the card. There can be an odd kind of pleasure in giving yourself over to the lesser emotions (and/or invoking them in others). Perhaps mud wrestling would give the effect - although I haven't tried it.

Mary

ZenMusic said:

I am a Scorpio.. that why I understand them.. (uh, us)

Venus/Scorpio is negative , is more that the ego, libedo "lust" is extremely high in Scorpio and they'll likely "use" the (well-intended) Venus energy.. for pleasure..

"indulging" .. that's a good description..

there is, of course, the ascendant Scorpio, where that energy is turned upward, toward the Spiritual (like me 8^) )

.. that aspect of Scorpio is represented by the Eagle , instead of the Scorpion (or snake)

Click to expand...

Good point. There are two aspects of debauch, pos and neg.

One is for those who really need to cut loose ... let go, be outrageous and have some decadent fun for once for god's sake!

The other is for those who know only tooooo well how to do this.

One is healthy, the other leads to being unhealthy.

Thanks for the insight here....

Only having Neptune in Scorpio in my chart, I'm not an expert on the sign. I've got mostly Aries & Gemini....so, hey, if it looks like goop then it must be goop, y'know.....

I am not a strict user of The Thoth by any means. I was always curious about it, and finally made the purchase a few months back, but have used other decks, including the traditionals (RWS, TDM), and probably my all-time favorite The Goddess Tarot, much more frequently. So, normally this card strikes me as having to make a choice, but keeping your head up in the clouds about it, dreaming of all kinds of things that "might be" instead of what likely will be.

The imagery here is intricate and layered with meaning as well. The cup within a cup is truly thought-provoking.

Quite a deck. I think I'll have more questions about The Thoth in my lifetime than all other decks put together.

Thanks everyone

Love & Light
Nancy

ravenest said:

The other is for those who know only tooooo well how to do this.

One is healthy, the other leads to being unhealthy.

Click to expand...

Ha!

Quitters.

They ain't got no stamina!

My IDS:

7 = needs
Cups = feelings
Emotional needs, neediness

Is this a yucky card or what? Slime, slime everywhere, dripping from cups into the sea. And there are no lotuses, only pink spotted tiger lilies spewing slime.

Crowley and Snuffin seem to get the most out of this card by contrasting it with the 6. The 6 cups were arranged in a an upward triangle and a downward one. Very harmonious. The 7 has 2 downward pointing triangles pointing to one larger one at the bottom, like the lower 7 sephiroth. The pleasure of the 6, emotion on the middle pillar, deviates to one side, and becomes debauch. Crowley says the sacrament is profaned. He means the sacrament of pleasure. All pleasures can be beautiful, spiritual, community and life affirming. Or they can be debauchery, depending on intent.

It’s Venus in Scorpio, so it’s double Venus, doubling the need and wanting. But it’s Scorpio, so it’s mysterious, hidden, and putrefying. Hence slime.

Snuffin emphasizes repression. When our emotional (or sexual) needs become mysterious and secret and repressed, they become shame. Or when our desires are not good for ourselves or others—desires tied up with violence, degradation, control, deceit, etc. True perversion. If these things are repressed or indulged in, the result is the same—shame. So I am officially renaming this card Shame. Both unwarranted shame, for repressed desires that are normal or otherwise fine that the person THINKS are shameful, and truly shameful, destructive things.

I’m happy with my reconstructed understanding of this card. I will be able to read with it and make some sense! As just plain run-of-the-mill emotional needs or shame, deserved or not.

Now Venus in Scorpio by the book: Deep passion, intense, free of taboos. Mental cruelty, addiction, manipulation, obsession, perversion.

In a reading: You have emotional needs (that aren’t being met). Or you may feel that there is something unnatural or shameful in your desires. (Explore with other cards.)