spinnachie
I was just curious as to what the difference between the two is. I've never dabbled in thoth, for the fact that i was new to tarot so i didn't want to overload myself. However now after having some experience my curiousity is peaked...
thoth tarot vs tarot
RunningWild
For me, the Thoth is very direct. It pulls no punches. You might want to search for as many of the deck's images as you can to make certain it's something you'd like. The Waite deck seems subtle. The Crowley deck is in your face.
Eons ago I received a reading from someone using the Thoth deck exclusively. The reading was very short and to the point. I hadn't even asked a question though I had one at the ready. I don't even know which cards were drawn though I can imagine. The message was: No. There's not enough time, not enough money.
It was the truth of the situation I was in, though it was a very blunt response.
Someone reading the Waite deck might have been prompted to something more like: You need a 3rd and maybe 4th source of income but probably even that won't work.
Two very distinct personalities.
Eons ago I received a reading from someone using the Thoth deck exclusively. The reading was very short and to the point. I hadn't even asked a question though I had one at the ready. I don't even know which cards were drawn though I can imagine. The message was: No. There's not enough time, not enough money.
It was the truth of the situation I was in, though it was a very blunt response.
Someone reading the Waite deck might have been prompted to something more like: You need a 3rd and maybe 4th source of income but probably even that won't work.
Two very distinct personalities.
spinnachie
that sounds rather intriguing...im a very blunt person myself in my day to day life im wondering if the crowley deck would be a good choice...even if its just for my own personal readings...
thanks for the info!
thanks for the info!
rwcarter
The difference between the two what? The Thoth is a tarot deck. It's from the Golden Dawn school of decks instead of the Marseilles school. What system are you trying to compare the Thoth to? A Marseilles-style deck? A Rider-Waite deck? Something else? You're asking for a comparison but "tarot" is way too broad a category to compare the Thoth against.
AJ
I'm new to the thoth deck so if I screw this up someone smarter will correct...
The designer and painter of the Thoth was Crowley and Harris
The designer and painter of the Rider/Waite was Waite and Coeman-Smith
All four of them belonged to a esoteric (mystery) group part of which I think was being beyond smart founded in the late 1800's and into and early 1900's
One of the rules as always with secret knowledge is some one won't be able to keep the secrets.
The Rider/Waite was published in 1909 and supposedly holds all the secrets, but they are hidden, you have to hunt for them.
Crowley's deck was done over 5 years, I think in the 40's and not published until the 1960's.
Crowley chose to show all the secrets.
So both are based on the same platform, and if you study both you will see it.
To me it is like thread and yarn or metric and standard. Same thing only different.
Sometimes it takes awhile to get past the idea of all that symbology facing us
There are wonderful books on the Thoth that will help us through it.
I only got my first Thoth about 6 weeks ago, and I'm journaling my way through it like wildfire. Not journaling just Thoth deck but 3 other decks based on the Thoth at the same time...
I am having SO much fun!
The designer and painter of the Thoth was Crowley and Harris
The designer and painter of the Rider/Waite was Waite and Coeman-Smith
All four of them belonged to a esoteric (mystery) group part of which I think was being beyond smart
founded in the late 1800's and into and early 1900'sOne of the rules as always with secret knowledge is some one won't be able to keep the secrets.
The Rider/Waite was published in 1909 and supposedly holds all the secrets, but they are hidden, you have to hunt for them.
Crowley's deck was done over 5 years, I think in the 40's and not published until the 1960's.
Crowley chose to show all the secrets.
So both are based on the same platform, and if you study both you will see it.
To me it is like thread and yarn or metric and standard. Same thing only different.
Sometimes it takes awhile to get past the idea of all that symbology facing us
There are wonderful books on the Thoth that will help us through it.
I only got my first Thoth about 6 weeks ago, and I'm journaling my way through it like wildfire. Not journaling just Thoth deck but 3 other decks based on the Thoth at the same time...
I am having SO much fun!
spinnachie
well see thats what im having trouble understanding, growing up when i heard of tarot it was always rider/waite or a rider/waite based deck that i thought of. I was aware that there were many different types of decks. Coming to this forum I am hearing of Thoth and Marseilles and I guess what I'm trying to figure out, are Thoth and Marseilles 2 other groups of decks that if you choose to use them you will almost have to relearn what you already know from rider/waite based decks? or is it just the same difference as lets say a rider/waite deck and a legacy of devine deck?
I'm new to the thoth deck so if I screw this up someone smarter will correct...
The designer and painter of the Thoth was Crowley and Harris
The designer and painter of the Rider/Waite was Waite and Coeman-Smith
All four of them belonged to a esoteric (mystery) group part of which I think was being beyond smart
One of the rules as always with secret knowledge is some one won't be able to keep the secrets.
The Rider/Waite was published in 1909 and supposedly holds all the secrets, but they are hidden, you have to hunt for them.
Crowley's deck was done over 5 years, I think in the 40's and not published until the 1960's.
Crowley chose to show all the secrets.
So both are based on the same platform, and if you study both you will see it.
To me it is like thread and yarn or metric and standard. Same thing only different.
Sometimes it takes awhile to get past the idea of all that symbology facing us
There are wonderful books on the Thoth that will help us through it.
I only got my first Thoth about 6 weeks ago, and I'm journaling my way through it like wildfire. Not journaling just Thoth deck but 3 other decks based on the Thoth at the same time...
I am having SO much fun!
this is another thing that confuses me, crowley chose to show the secrets that rider/waite had hidden...which goes back to the question i asked rwcarter up above
rwcarter
The Rider Waite is the predominant tarot deck in North America. And I'm sure to many in North America, it is equated with "tarot". But Aeclectic is an international forum, so it's always best not to make assumptions and spell everything out.
The Thoth and Rider Waite are both derived from the Golden Dawn school. Where AE Waite did his best to keep his secret oaths secret, Aleister Crowley told it all. I don't think one would be successful in trying to read the Thoth using Rider Waite meanings, but a Thoth background will add a depth to Rider Waite meanings that you might not otherwise have.
The Marseilles school predates the Golden Dawn school by a few hundred years. Marseille decks have non-scenic pips, which can be read in a number of ways. You can try to shoehorn Rider Waite meanings onto those pips, but you'll be doing yourself and the deck a disservice. They also tend to have Strength at 11 and Justice at 8. (The Golden Dawn switched those two cards to fit their system of astrological associations.)
None of the systems is necessarily better than the other ones, just different. If you wish to learn more about the different schools, visit the Tarot History & Iconography section of Aeclectic where there separate forums dedicated to the Marseilles, Thoth and Rider-Waite-Smith decks.
HTH,
Rodney
Zephyros
The Rider-Waite-Smith and Thoth are actually quite similar, but the RWS is more often read with at face value, in essence, by the pictures alone, rather by the attributions and structure. The Thoth is more often used in conjunction with the symbolism derived from the Golden Dawn and Qabalah. Although they look very different, they are actually very similar, and have much the same meanings, albeit from a different perspective (they "say" different things).
The biggest difference between the two is that the Thoth espouses Crowley's philosophy known as Thelema, while the RWS's agenda is Christian mysticism.
The biggest difference between the two is that the Thoth espouses Crowley's philosophy known as Thelema, while the RWS's agenda is Christian mysticism.
Miss.dk
Depends on how you personally feel
In Modern Magick, by Donald Michael Kraig, "The members of the Golden Dawn considered their 'correct' version of the Tarot to be an important secret of the Order. Waite and Smith, who had taken solemn vows not to reveal the inner secrets of the Golden Dawn, kept their word. Many of the cars are designed with symbolism that varies considerably from the meanings given to the cards by the Golden Dawn, perhaps in order to fool the uninitiated. Today, there are many decks based upon Waite and Smith's designs...and all of these decks, according to the Golden Dawn tradition, are symbolically wrong."
The Thoth tarot deck is based upon many different aspects; including philosophy, numerology, ancient religions, and science. Crowley's desire was to create a 'worthy' version of the tarot, since he believed there did not exist any authentic Text to describe the Tarot. He studied the Tarot for 48 years, after "he received the grade of 'Practicus' in the Golden Dawn and was entrusted with their secret attributions of the Tarot."
I have always been fond of the Thoth deck myself, and it's symbolism goes so deeply it's hard to be interested and not want to study the theories involved. I can't imagine attempting to decipher it without research, however.
You certainly sound interested, so I would recommend reading 'The Book of Thoth' and see what you think. As mentioned above, the deck is very deep and (I believe) powerful. If you have any darkness in you then you will most definitely find yourself staring into it when you use this deck. If you can handle it then it will be a blessing in your life, but that can be a frightening thing even to experienced users.
There is also a sub forum dedicated to the Thoth tarot, check it out! Good luck!
In Modern Magick, by Donald Michael Kraig, "The members of the Golden Dawn considered their 'correct' version of the Tarot to be an important secret of the Order. Waite and Smith, who had taken solemn vows not to reveal the inner secrets of the Golden Dawn, kept their word. Many of the cars are designed with symbolism that varies considerably from the meanings given to the cards by the Golden Dawn, perhaps in order to fool the uninitiated. Today, there are many decks based upon Waite and Smith's designs...and all of these decks, according to the Golden Dawn tradition, are symbolically wrong."
The Thoth tarot deck is based upon many different aspects; including philosophy, numerology, ancient religions, and science. Crowley's desire was to create a 'worthy' version of the tarot, since he believed there did not exist any authentic Text to describe the Tarot. He studied the Tarot for 48 years, after "he received the grade of 'Practicus' in the Golden Dawn and was entrusted with their secret attributions of the Tarot."
I have always been fond of the Thoth deck myself, and it's symbolism goes so deeply it's hard to be interested and not want to study the theories involved. I can't imagine attempting to decipher it without research, however.
You certainly sound interested, so I would recommend reading 'The Book of Thoth' and see what you think. As mentioned above, the deck is very deep and (I believe) powerful. If you have any darkness in you then you will most definitely find yourself staring into it when you use this deck. If you can handle it then it will be a blessing in your life, but that can be a frightening thing even to experienced users.
There is also a sub forum dedicated to the Thoth tarot, check it out! Good luck!
nisaba
Um ... the Thoth versus which other deck or style of deck?
There are lots of decks, and the best of them are all individuals. There are several Thoth-style decks - I have a few of them, including the Haindl and the Liber T; and lots of RW-style decks - I have many of those, also; there are many Marseilles-style decks (which are not the same as having unillustrated pips), and I have a small but growing contingent of those also. And then, there are a number which seem to have systems all of their very own.
I must admit I love all of these families of decks, in their different ways. They are like children: they all belong to the same family (Tarot), and like children, you gotta love them all, but some of them have more charm than others, and others have more troubling behaviours, but your heart goes out to all of them.
The more styles of decks you get familiar with, the deeper your relationship with the whole of the family will become.
