Caylee Anthony V/S Casey Anthony (comparison chart)

Minderwiz

As far as the 4th representing the mother and the 10th house representing the father,
this has been debated by astrologers as long as I can remember. And I have
checked it out thoroughly, to my satisfaction, and I stand on the side
of 4th house = mother and the 10th = father...works for me. You can choose the
reverse if you like. There is no hard fast rule, in my eyes, not when a lot of astrologers
cannot agree 100 % on that information.

My reasons are as follows: (not talking about Caylee's chart right now)
1. The 4th house is normally represented by the Cancer sign
(which, to me, is more motherly than fatherly) (to me)

2. The 10th house is normally represented by the Capricorn sign
(which is more fatherly than motherly) (to me)

or put another way (my simple way):

4th house = Cancer sign = nurturer (as in mother)...in my mind

10th house = Capricorn sign = disciplinarian (as in father)...in my mind

Minderwiz, will you please allow me 'my own choice' in the 4th vs/ 10th parental representative
[/quote]

Ah Now I have a clearer idea of your understanding of the Houses. The debate you refer to actually only went on for a short time and was largely based on misunderstandings. The meanings of the houses were fixed around 200BCE and EVERY Astrologer from then till about 1970 followed those meanings. The 1970s saw thbe rise of the ABC system, Planet= Sign=House - which you so well explain in your post and pesumably is why you think that Pluto signifies death and not Saturn.

Of course if you want to follow this system you are free to do so, but you do need to remember that many of its adherents have now deserted it, as they learn more about the nature of Astrology. I'm sure your investigations looked at the pros and cons as put forward at the time but since then a lot of work has been done on understanding the original nature and function of the Houses. You came into Astrology at a time of some confusion and I can well understand the attraction of the system to a beginner.


You might find:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h4.html

and

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h10.html

helpful. And no, this isn't just one view, even previous adherents like Liz Greene have changed back to the original meanings, once they understood the basis for the meanings.

By all means use the ABC system, in a way it's nice to know that it still has some adherents who have passed beyond the beginners level and if it works for you, why change to the system most other contemporary Astrologers use?
 

tarotlyn

:):heart: ...never heard of the ABC system...and actually I read and read and read EVERYTHING
I could get my hands on (astrological texts I mean), BUT I was not so concerned about WHO
wrote the words, as I was and still am about how ACCURATE their text was and is when I put it
to the true test of charting actual charts with real people (for myself). Yes, I did learn in the mid 70's,
starting at age 18, and this is now 2011. I never stopped reading, charting, testing, sampling,
comparing, checking, timing, etc. my method of aspects or combined aspects between people
using those methods that I found to be TRUE for me, maybe not for you or some other astrologers,
but to my own satisfaction.

Not 'every' book or astrological opinion that I read or know about, in all these years, has proven to be accurate at all.
So those things I discarded and I kept what works for me.

As far as astrologers deserting any methods that I still use, that is their prerogative to do so,
and it doesn't affect my proven, to me, findings in the least. Especially when I chart and counsel someone,
and warn them that it is way too dangerous to be with their abusive boyfriend, (his Mars opposition her Moon),
and then she changes her house locks, then he breaks in, goes mad, and then he proceeds
to break her arm and then choke her. These are the type of things that I have experienced
(and much much more) to prove 'to me' that my use of astrology (even if it is the ABC system?..LOL)
IS being used in the correct way, by me, for my counseling purposes.

Any other members care to discuss my original 1st post regarding just the 'combined hard aspects' between
Casey Anderson and her daughter Caylee Angerson? If so, please go back to post #1 to see
the hard aspects I listed and I would be more than happy to discuss how those involved planets work
when in hard aspects. By the way, I am not talking about detail of the houses, signs, 70's ABC methods,
but just plain and simple 'combined hard aspects' of certain planets (including outer planets) between two people.

:heart: HUGS
tarotlyn
 

Wonderwoman

The Eclipses

Tarotlyn, sorry about the delay in response. What I meant about the eclipses was that we have so far experienced the Solar on 6/1, the lunar yesterday the 15th and we have another one coming on July/1. I find it so interesting of how these eclipses are occuring during the span of the trial. My understanding on astrology is that it is so uncannily accurate with Timing of Events. I am inclined to do a reading on the outcome of the case, tarot-reading.

Ww
 

tarotlyn

Tarotlyn, sorry about the delay in response. What I meant about the eclipses was that we have so far experienced the Solar on 6/1, the lunar yesterday the 15th and we have another one coming on July/1. I find it so interesting of how these eclipses are occuring during the span of the trial. My understanding on astrology is that it is so uncannily accurate with Timing of Events. I am inclined to do a reading on the outcome of the case, tarot-reading.

Ww
For a minute there, I thought I had missed an Eclipse somewhere...:bugeyed::laugh:
Regarding doing a tarot reading on this case is an excellent idea and I would love to see you do that.
I think we could get a lot of psychic information from your tarot reading on the matter. I, for one,
will definitely be following your reading with keen interest. Are you going to start a thread
for your reading? I think that would be a great idea.

Could you please pm me with the 'thread link' when you start your tarot reading thread on this case?

:heart: HUGS
tarotlyn
 

Bernice

I see that Pluto has raised his head again, and the 4th/10th house mother/father issue :)

Back in the mid 60s I read everything and anything I could get my hands on.
For approx. the next 20 years I generally regarded the 4th house as the Mother, primarily because Cancer in the mundane house arrangement appears in the 4th.

But during that time I continued my investigations and it became obvious that the 4th is the Father, not the Mother.

Likewise, Pluto which is quite prominent in my chart, wasn't living up to it's given interpretations. In events involving 'death', the most prominent planets were Saturn, Mars, and sometimes Uranus (another outer not historically recognised :)), not forgetting the Moon transits.

BUT having discovered the original 'astrology' and its' amazing accuracy, having stood the test of time (centuries), it has become clear that if a person has programmed themselves over a long period of study to 'read' a chart according to their personal preference of interpretation then some sort of synchronicity kicks in, and whatever method is used, the end results tend to be similar.

The difficulty arises when people don't initially explain the method, or house system that is being used.

A further bone of contention is when assertions are made that the method used is Original, when in fact it is a 20th century version, complete with mis-understood elements. No problem with assertions claiming that a non-orginal method works best for individual astrologers. We all develop and evolve our own approaches.



Bee :)
 

tarotlyn

I see that Pluto has raised his head again, and the 4th/10th house mother/father issue :)

Back in the mid 60s I read everything and anything I could get my hands on.
For approx. the next 20 years I generally regarded the 4th house as the Mother, primarily because Cancer in the mundane house arrangement appears in the 4th.

But during that time I continued my investigations and it became obvious that the 4th is the Father, not the Mother.

Likewise, Pluto which is quite prominent in my chart, wasn't living up to it's given interpretations. In events involving 'death', the most prominent planets were Saturn, Mars, and sometimes Uranus (another outer not historically recognised :)), not forgetting the Moon transits.

BUT having discovered the original 'astrology' and its' amazing accuracy, having stood the test of time (centuries), it has become clear that if a person has programmed themselves over a long period of study to 'read' a chart according to their personal preference of interpretation then some sort of synchronicity kicks in, and whatever method is used, the end results tend to be similar.

The difficulty arises when people don't initially explain the method, or house system that is being used.

A further bone of contention is when assertions are made that the method used is Original, when in fact it is a 20th century version, complete with mis-understood elements. No problem with assertions claiming that a non-orginal method works best for individual astrologers. We all develop and evolve our own approaches.



Bee :)
Hi! Bee!
My original thread started with just aspects, no mention of houses (4th or 10th) or signs or methods, or
other astrologers, etc. I was only mentioning the hard aspects I saw. Surely most astrologers
recognize aspects. You can find aspects using any astrologer's method, I believe.

Maybe they don't use the outer planets, Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto, but I do.
So those that don't use Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto and don't recognize using just hard aspects
(or soft aspects) between two people, probably wouldn't even understand my thread in the first place.

I believe that another member brought up all the other things that were not originally
brought up in my original 1st post, thus sidetracked the whole purpose of my thread.
(which was to mention 'combined hard aspects between two people.')

Everyone has an equal voice in what astrology means to themselves, according to their own
experience with astrology. We all get to choose the methods or ideas that we adopt in our
astrological studies and actual charting. I feel that my personal opinion and experience is as
valid as anyone's else's, having studied the scholarly information and I am able to report my
own personal findings.

If you don't agree with using Pluto, Uranus, Neptune, or adopt the 4th house as
representative of the mother, nor the 10th as representative of the father, then
that is your choice. However I do use Pluto, Uranus, Neptune, as well as adopt
the 4th house as representative of the mother, and the 10th as representative of the father,
which is my choice.

See, that is just the thing, I have not 'programmed' myself over a long periord of study
to read a chart. I read all the different prominent astrologer's viewpoints I could, and
then I conducted my own years of research and chart counseling using various methods
of astrology, UNTIL I found what worked for me. What I have attested to, works for me.
Maybe not for you, but it does 100% for me. If it works for me in real life, then it is valid.
It consistently works for me as well.

If you don't like Pluto or the 4th house as the mother and the 10th house as the father,
then don't use them. If Pluto doesn't work in your own chart, then don't use it.
But know that doesn't stop me or change my experiences or my own knowledge
and experience of Pluto, the 4th house mother, or the 10th father.

We can all debate, debate, debate, and debate until we are set in our ways, but what matters
more than any (living or) long-dead 'authority' says about astrology, is what the charts actually
say to me. I took what I learned as a 'starting point', not an 'ending one.'

Thank you for your thoughts and hopefully everyone that is confused by all of this
information, can and will do some charting on real life situations and people and
find out what works best for themselves. To each his own way.

I wonder if anyone will ever actually talk about what my thread was originally about?
...which is the 'combined hard aspects between two people.'
(those that do believe in Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto)

:heart:HUGS
tarotlyn
 

FaireMaiden

Eeesh... Tues June 28-2011 @ 1:19am PDT

Tarotlyn... I quite agree with your assessment that, when it comes to Synastry, ASPECTS are dang-near everything. In my work, House position is not just secondary, but rather minor. Contention is contention, no matter where that contention plays-out. NO relationship can long survive the constant tension of harsh and violent aspects. And, sadly, in cases like these, neither do the people, *sigh*.

RE: Combined Hard Aspects (ONLY) ...what I found was that there ARE several horrible and VERY VIOLENT aspects between them involving Mars (temper, anger, war), Pluto (death), Uranus (sudden and erratic actions).

If you want to see their 'individual charts'... here are the links to them:

Caylee, the daughter, had (what I call) the 'child abuse' aspect of 'Saturn square Mars'
in her natal chart. I have seen this aspect many times and in each case the person was abused (in some way) as a child and it has left an emotional mark on them! Caylee also had some hard to handle aspects and as she started getting older her and her mom were starting to have some serious problems. Caylee was a handful (from looking at her natal chart).

http://s428.photobucket.com/albums/...ent=CayleeAnthonyNatal.gif&mediafilter=images

ETA: COMBINED HARD ASPECTS that I found between them both:

Daughter Caylee ~ vs ~ Mother Casey
Sun ~~~~ square ~~ Pluto
Mercury ~~ square ~~ Pluto
Saturn ~~ square ~~ Pluto
Uranus ~~ square ~~ Saturn
Mars ~~~ opposed ~ Pluto
Pluto ~~~ opposed ~ Sun​

I hope you don't mind my re-doing this table... I just couldn't read the red-colour properly... it strained my eyes too much.

This is a very interesting case. I don't read the news, or watch television news either, so have known nothing about these people. Alas, your post intrigued me, so I am now looking into it.

I cannot comment yet on the two of them, thus your Table, but I will say this... Caylee's chart is a mess. Tragic beyond belief. She was not long for this world, *sigh*.

Just to give one example right off the bat: the Mars/Saturn Midpoint is the 'Point of Murder' according to Ebertin. Caylee's Mars/Saturn Midpoint is 19.56 Gemini (10th House of Public Knowledge) in exact square to the Cusp of her 8th House of Death at 19.52 Pisces, (Pisces being ruled by Neptune... so her death is shrouded in mystery).

As well, that 'Midpoint of Murder' at 19.56 Gemini (10th House) is square Venus at 20.53 Virgo, (2nd House of 'possessions', in it's Fall, and representative of the Mother. How do we know it's the Mother? Because Venus rules Taurus and Libra, and Taurus is on Caylee's MC... the House of Mother).

All this comes full-circle, completing a Grand Square, as Pluto, at 21.58 Sagg, (and just one-degree away from moving into the 5th House of Children), is still technically in the 4th of the 'End of Life'.

One more horror is that Caylee's 'Part of Death' at 6.1 Aquarius (6th House of Health, Subordination, and Policemen) opposes Saturn at 3.04 Leo (12th of Karma, Restraint, and Prisons), with both of them forming a T-square to Mars at 6.49 Taurus (9th of Courts of Law, Grandchilden, Illness of one's parent(s), and Losses thru one's same-sex parent)... which also happens to be the most elevated planet in the horoscope. And Mars in Taurus is known to be contentious and obstinate beyond belief... a fighter.

I have more to say about this 9th House business, it's fascinating, but I just can't continue. It's late and I'm too tired to get any further into this tonight. Once I get Caylee's chart pretty much done, I'll take a look at Mother Casey's... and then compare them.

And, yes, Sunrise charts are quite fine to use for Synastry.

Once I'm done with all that, I might erect a Johndro location chart for the actual murder. We'll see... these things get sooooo drawn-out!

Faire
 

Minderwiz

FaireMaiden: said:
Thanks... but I prefer not to look at anyone else's analysis right now.

There's no analysis, simply a list of the natal details of all significant participants in the case, plus one or two events in the case. It's the first place I've seen things collated. My aim was to save people too much time trawling the internet for the relevant data
 

FaireMaiden

There's no analysis, simply a list of the natal details of all significant participants in the case, plus one or two events in the case. It's the first place I've seen things collated. My aim was to save people too much time trawling the internet for the relevant data
Yes... I jumped the gun on that one. I wrote my response before I actually went and looked. Thanks for the link! It WILL save huge amounts of time having all the dates collated in one place, *vbs*.