Lenormand - Treppner Course

colorwalk

Hi Phoenix Rising (and whoever else that may think I was criticizing Sylvie's system),

Thank you for your insights, but I think you have misunderstood the meaning of my posts, as well as its purpose. You certainly do not need to defend Sylvie's system, expertise, or character to me. I didn't say anything at all about her character in my posts, because in all honesty, I don't know her nor have I interacted with her to any extent. Besides, for the purpose of my post, her character was irrelevant.

My reasons in doing a comparison was to give as much of an objective point of view as possible in regards to my experience with studying and learning the Lenormand through both systems simultaneously in hopes that it may benefit others who are deciding between systems. I'll tell you now that when I was searching for information on this board regarding how best to start out using the Lenormand, it was HARD to find an unbiased constructive review or comparison when it comes to Sylvie's vs whatever other system. It's either harsh bashing or defensive praises championing systems and characters.

I think LisaW said it best:

LisaW said:
I'm grateful for all information, and then the freedom to pick and choose. It's unrealistic to think that only Sylvie has the answers, or on the flip side that Treppner has all the answers- they're not the only two who read lenormand!

That is precisely my feeling. If you go back and read my review/comparison post again, you will see that I thought both systems complemented each other well for me. And I wanted to share that sentiment with others who may be having trouble seeking a more detailed comparison between the two rather than the usual "I dislike her, she's horrible" vs "she has decades of experience and is so kind to share it with us" sort of deal... which in all honesty, has nothing to do with how useful or good the Treppner course and Sylvie's book was. I wanted to talk about the material itself, and like most reviews, there would be pros and cons. Those were simply my experiences.

There is certainly no need to validate Sylvie's expertise or system to me by listing out her extensive experience or accomplishments. I'm not doubting her system; in fact, I use it and enjoy it all the time as mentioned in my comparison. I like her system because a lot of it made sense to me, and it worked. It isn't (and won't ever be) because she has tons of thousands of experience with clients or comes from generations of Lenormand readers. Her system has proven to work for me, and that's enough in my opinion.

Phoenix Rising said:
I also wanted to touch on why she used Fox for work, and also the understanding that I have of that card. A fox is an animal who does things out of habit for it's survival, it's a means to live, just like a job is. People are not always going to stay at the same job for the rest of their lives, just as anchor might suggest. A fox moves, sometimes cunningly. Now explain to me how you see anchor as best representing a job or work?
Again, I think you may have misunderstood my point completely. I'm not here to argue about a system and say which card should be which. In my opinion, that's a personal thing and a reader should choose what feels right to them. I used the Fox and Anchor to illustrate that point and how it was beneficial to me that I had two systems to work with because it allows alternatives, variety, and most of all... it made me think about which one made sense to me personally.

I was in no way inferring that Sylvie's system is inferior because I didn't see the Fox as a work/career card. Should I have gone on to point out that I agreed with Sylvie and saw Whips as a sexuality card more than the traditional Lily? Would that appease Sylvie fans? But you see, superiority in card meanings wasn't my point. In fact, I even added that I understood Sylvie's reasoning behind the Fox being a work/career card... just that it wasn't for me personally.

For all my intents and purposes, what each card actually means aren't even relevant... but to address your question about why I see Anchor as the work card- it is mostly because I see a career as the thing that gives stability to ones life. As I mentioned in my initial post, I can see Fox to represent work sometimes... but maybe only as an odd job here or there. But when it comes to a career or a stable job, Anchor is it for me. Another large reason I didn't want to assign the Fox to work is because I see it mainly as a deception, lies, or cunning creativity. I'd like to reserve that card for that and save myself the confusion of wondering if Fox was talking about my job or someone deceiving me. There are more reasons... but again, that is all personal and it's something I've come to decide for myself after studying the differences in systems (and I'm glad for that).

-----
In all honesty, I had wondered to myself if I was making a mistake by talking about my experience with Sylvie's method and Treppner's course... and yea, I really should've kept my mouth shut because I'm beginning to think that anything said about the Lenormand teachings (especially those pertaining to Sylvie's method) is just going to end up being misconstrued. There's a wide chasm between her dedicated fans and those who dislike her for whatever reason. Those who like her are only going to think that any little "unfavorable" thing said about her book is an attack on Sylvie's character and expertise, while those who dislike her are only going to jump on those aspects and say "Yea her book sucks!"

I had never made a comment anywhere on this site pertaining to either and have tried not to let either side influence me while searching for information to learn on. I initially thought that maybe my post could shed some light for those who might want to know what it was about each system (and teaching material) that worked for someone else, hopefully backed up with specific reasons, which was what I tried to do.

I largely ignored the mention of the study group, because as I have also said, I wasn't a part of it. So it was a pure comparison between her book and the Treppner course... which now that I think about it, is probably an accurate way of comparing, seeing as how the Treppners are not here leading a study group. In that way, it's solely seeing how each body of written work stands as itself.

That said, I have said this before to Sylvie on another thread and I'll say it again now. I think it's wonderful that she had taken the time to lead the study group here, and obviously those who attended have benefited from it greatly. I've also mentioned that I understand her reasons for stopping. In fact, I said I would chalk the whole "study group no longer active" thing as it being unfortunate for ME that I missed it. I'm not blaming her for it.

In short, I was merely sharing my own learning experience for her book and for Treppner's course, as well as my experience with not being able to participate in the study group. I LIKE Sylvie's system. I LIKE the Treppner Course. BOTH had their own merits, differences, and shortcomings in the delivery, which is normal. I took whatever works for me from BOTH. That is all.

Disclaimer: There were no hidden agendas, backstabbing motives, or mysterious criticisms/praises involved in my comparison review and subsequent posts.
 

Phoenix Rising

hello Colorwalk,

Thank you for clarifying, it is the unfortunate thing that sometimes when reading posts it comes across differently to what the writer actually means, so misunderstandings are always going to occur on forums like this.

I have seen and read alot of harsh criticisms and judgements against Sylvie and her book, so another comparison between the Treppner and her method seemed like just another blow. People write about her and the book as if she would never read it, as if she doesn't exist on here, so I will always defend and be an advocate.

I cannot judge on the treppner course as I have never read it, although I am aware of the differences in just a few of the card meanings, if I remember rightly there are maybe 6 card meaning differences, so just a slight variation to the traditional way. I have also seen how people use both card meanings in their readings, and most of the time, they make no sense, perhaps the mind has become confused so it shows a confused reading. Or else what they might do is, interpret one reading using the tradtional meanings, and then using the Sylvie way, and basically see which one seems more accurate.

I had a couple of times participated on a blog in which the writer very experienced had learnt the traditional way, and we had both interpreted the spread using our learned method. It was very interesting the result, similliar in most cases our readings, and prediction was later updated. The good thing with this writer, she was very open to seeing both ways, and we had some good correspondences...certainly no judgements.

Sometimes a small problem is when people make their own personal opinion on books or other, is that other people take their comments literally and will never seek out to find out for themselves. One bad apple can ruin the apple cart, type scenario. A not so glowing review can hinder and not help at all. just like a movie.....my opinion on movies might be different to someone elses.

I know the Grand tableau was only mentioned briefly in the book, so when I did the workshop we did go through the Grand Tableau, and it was quite comprehensive, very long, and I must say you would have to have a hands on experience with the spread to understand it. There were 3 or 4 other processes to it....Sylvies grand aunt would take 2 hours to read it. So to try and explain it in the book, could be quite confusing to the reader!

Then the health section, that could not be elaborated because people in America like to sue people for diagnosing or for saying they know a cure for something, that was a matter of legalities...so as much as some people say they think it wasn't very deep and informative, there are very good reasons for not including it.

I may have looked at the Treppner course if there wasn't any other English material on it. Actually I don't know if I would of even looked at lenormand at all if it wasn't for the virtual workshop. Did you know lenormand is not known to the New Zealand public at all! Lenormand decks and books cannot be found in New Zealand book stores, even specialised New age bookstores.

Anyway, I think my long winded post has bored everyone long enough.

Many blessings to you all.

Phoenix
 

colorwalk

Hi Phoenix,

Thank you for understanding. Forgive me, I know I have a tendency to be wordy and will try to keep this shorter. I do understand and can relate to your reasons for why my post felt like yet another blow. I can assure you that I'm not one to jump and judge for no other reason than some misguided personal grudge. It's unfortunate that so many problems like these seems to have crept up in response to Sylvie's work.

I have no doubts that Sylvie's live workshop was great, and yes, I have heard that she covers the Grand Tableau there. However, I'm sure you realize that being able to attend her workshop is a rare opportunity. My comparison opinion wasn't based on her knowledge and what else you can learn from her in person... it was a pure look at two pieces of written work on the Lenormand. What an author ultimately decides to put in their book is their own decision and right. I only wanted to state the facts as in what information is available or missing in each- which, btw, doesn't necessarily make one or the other bad. Not every book will be able to cover everything or else we'd only need one book on any given subject!

Yes, Sylvie can see the review as she is a member of this board. And yes, some people can take one opinion on a book and never seek out other opinions. But neither should, in my personal opinion, be a reason at all as to why an opinion should not be posted. This board is filled with opinions on all sorts of matters, decks, books, and systems. Plenty of other authors, deck creators, and publishers come here and can see these compliments/criticisms. We would all be suffocated and unable to speak if we have to take all their feelings into consideration. That said, I'm of course not a believer of blatant accusations and unreasonable or ungrounded criticisms. I sure hope my post didn't come out sounding like one of those.

It is also my personal belief that more information is better. As a new person wanting more information on what the Treppner course and Sylvie's book has to offer, I would certainly wish to hear more thoughts on this. Part of the reason I wrote something at all was because I was frustrated by most of the opinions on this board being either something like, "her book is horrible, she's a snob, go for Treppner" and "her system is great, she's so kind, she has a lot of experience"... to be honest, neither is all that helpful. I'm not saying my opinion was especially comprehensive (I was trying not to ramble as I'm sure you all know I do by now), but I at least hope it's more useful than the aforementioned comments.

By the way, I definitely don't expect Sylvie to cover health topics to any great extent. I know very well the issues that something like that would entail!

And less I keep rambling, this brings my post to an end and it should be the last I'm going to say about all this. I apologize to all others who may be coming into this thread seeking for more information on the Treppner course and ended up having to put up with the thread getting hijacked!
 

SolSionnach

Yes, can more people chime in on their responses to the Treppner course??
 

colorwalk

sravana said:
Yes, can more people chime in on their responses to the Treppner course??
In an attempt to keep to the topic about the Treppner course only, here's a bit more information on it for anyone looking into purchasing the course:

The course comes in PDF format emailed to you and has 7 parts total:

- 1 file on all the card combination meanings
- 1 file on single card meanings (which is broken down into keywords, general description, love, career, characteristics/qualities, medicine, timing guide, and astrological correspondence)
- 5 files covering intro, reading basics, combo reading, various ways to interpret, a whole lot on the grand tableau and the different ways to interpret that spread, and a bunch of reading examples as well (also illustrated with card and spread pictures)

Miscellaneous notes on the course:

- The complete combinations list, unfortunately, seems to yield very little difference regardless which card comes first in a combo. It appears to have been cross-pasted in a lot of cases. I was surprised to see that since the course went into a lot of detail talking about the importance of card order and how it can change the meaning of an interpretation. Someone on another board had mentioned that it could be a typo, so I don't know.

- "medicine" in the card meanings isn't the actual medicine/drug. From what I can see, it seems to be guidance or interpretation related to the body. Sometimes it's a straightforward health interpretation, sometimes just body parts/areas, and other times it's an advice that's almost for your spiritual or mental well-being.

Overall, a lot of info to absorb. I'm not sure I'm even on the tip of the iceberg that is the grand tableau. :p
 

sammyofnyc

Learning how to predict time frames with the Lenormand Cards.

I have a question regarding timing with the Lenormand cards. I have the Mlle. Lenormand Cartomancy Deck by Piatnik and I also have the Sylvie Steinbach book which does cover timing issues but I am not completed convinced by her method for timing events so I tried other websites including this one that talks about timing with Lenormand and they are sooooo contradictory to each other. It makes your head spin ala Linda Blair. I am pretty good with the meaning of the cards and the spreads but I SUCK when it comes to predicting time frames or timing events.

There are a few websites one in particular a German website that have courses for learning the Lenormand cards but I don't have the money to take those courses and I don't know German. Besides like I stated I know about the cards and the meaning. All I need to learn is timing events!!

One question that has always bothered me in terms of timing is when a reading is done and cards are read in relation to other cards how do you know which card to select to represent the time frame when something is supposed to happen?

Let's us say for example you do a reading and the subject is money and let's say you get 4 cards that deal with money/financial issues during the reading, which of those cards do you select to represent the time frame to make your decision. Based on the book written by Steinbach, most cards represent a different time frame, so how do you know which one card to select that would answer the question about when something is supposed to happen?

If the Lenormand cards are accurate (and I believe they are) then the time frame has to be SPECIFIC also. I would feel comfortable-not to mention my ego would feel good--if I would be able to pinpoint a time frame accurately and be consistently correct almost all the time. Boy that would be great! Telling someone that an event will take place between now and 5 years from now is not my idea of a good fortune teller. I mean really, anyone without access to any oracle/divination system can say something will happen to you between now and 5 years from now and most likely it will (assuming you are still able to witness the event). I mean it defeats the purpose of predicting altogether since most people want to know not just what is going to happen but WHEN!

There has to be a SIMPLE & ACCURATE (with little time variance) that can give reliable time frame prediction. Does anyone have any suggestions???

I appreciate any help.

Sam
 

lord_ewin

Wow, I hadn't seen this thread before. There are so many threads on here that things get burried deep and don't surface for quite some time.

When I initially started reading Lenormand 10 years ago, I had no teacher, did not know about Steinbach or Treppner. I had one slim french book, the petit lenormand deck that was handed down to me and a thirst to understand them.

I learned the full layout 9X4 method first, without direction, and I got extremely good at it (you be the judge though!). The problem is that writing online about the 9X4 is a complex issue. Phoenix said that Sylvie's mother takes 2 hours to read it... It has a lot of detail. Some of it staggering. The problem is that you need to recognize patterns, and the cards definitions. When I came to Aeclectic Tarot, I was looking for is exactly what you've written down: more information on the method I've been using for 10 years.

Instead, I bumped into the Steinbach threads. I'll say one thing about them: "They've given me more food for thought, and my technique has changed slightly because of it." For only for that, I think the two worlds coliding was beneficial. I don't resort to only the 9X4 now, but I've come to a melding, but I have been leaving the 9X4 method aside. Which is something I'd like to remedy.

Having never read the Treppner method, I'm hard pressed to see just how close it might be with my own personal experiences, and would like to see more on Treppner and more people discussing it.

A point of note: I hate the whole fluff about one method being better than the other. I personally don't believe it. What I agree on is that people might favor a method over another, just as people might favor lemon marigue pie over pumpkin spice pie, but don't tell me the pumpkin pie is the better pie and the only pie I should be eating (and it matters little to me how many people have eaten it before)...

Would there be some learning threads on Treppner? Or would someone endeavor to start some excersise off? I've been thinking of doing a full reading spread and going into the trouble of disecting it.
 

Kenrick

I found this thread and excitedly read all eight pages of it.And when I reach the end, it appears that the last post was several years ago. :-(

I tried to find both of the things talked about… Steinbach and Treppner.

I have been able to find the Teeppner site, but even translating it, I can not find the course.

Is it still being offered?

Anyone know how to find both of these resources?

Thanks.
 

Kenrick

Lenormand vs Sibilla

I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this, so apologies if it is not where it should be.

Does anyone have and use (or have knowledge of) both the Sibilla and the Lenormand cards.

The Sibilla cards I have, have 52 cards, like a full playing card deck. The Lenormand has like 36 if I remember.

What are the strengths and weaknesses of both these decks/styles.

I'm very excited at what the prospects are for what these seem to represent in comparison to the tarot - a more practical way of looking at things. I've read tarot for many years, so am excited to branch out into these and would like to hear from those with more experience.

Thank you.
 

IheartTarot

I tried to find both of the things talked about… Steinbach and Treppner.

I have been able to find the Teeppner site, but even translating it, I can not find the course.

Is it still being offered?

Anyone know how to find both of these resources?

You can now order the Treppner correspondence course here. Attach a note if you want the English version.

The Secrets of the Lenormand Oracle by Sylvie Steinbach is available from Amazon, Book Depository etc.