The need of more advanced deck?

earthair

But what if your cheese sandwich was made with hand milled flour made from wheat grown by monks, baked by the greatest chef in the world, sliced by the finest swordsman in the history of martial arts, and filled with cheese made from purest unicorns milk? Now is it a work of art transcending the functionality of sustenance?

If a tarot artist spends two years on a mountain with a zen master and at the end of his study paints a single dot and calls it the Death card , does this make his approach less satisfying?
 

Zephyros

earthair said:
If a tarot artist spends two years on a mountain with a zen master and at the end of his study paints a single dot and calls it the Death card , does this make his approach less satisfying?
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Well, yes, to some extent. A Tarot artist may be highly enlightened but their capacity to convey that in a functional tool like Tarot may not be up to the task. Many people can paint petty pictures but a lot fewer can make a good Tarot deck, the talents are related but separate. There are some very simple books with profound messages, like The Giving Tree or The Little Engine that Could, but they simply cannot be compared to "real" novels that explore ideas in a fuller way with greater sophistication. The way you explain an idea to a child isn't the way you would explain it to an adult, even though the idea may be the same one. While both Shakespeare and Mother Goose both tell morality plays, one of them simply does it with more sophistication and scope. Mother Goose, however, still has a place in culture, albeit a very different place.

Now I'm certainly not saying that simple decks are childish. However, a good analogy would be that of a linguist. A small child can speak their native language very well, but it is the linguist who knows why the child speaks the way it does, where the words come from and why. Most people just speak their languages without exploring further, just as some people content themselves with merely doing readings, using Tarot rather than studying it. Some decks only "speak" in the Tarot language while others go deeper into the root causes of what makes each card what, and force you to learn the actual syntax and sentence structure of that same language. Simpler decks may be, as you say, satisfying to use, just as our cheese sandwich will satisfy our belly, but they will never be the "high" art of Tarot, however beautifully they may be illustrated, but the perfectly valid and useful "low" Tarot.

Now I admit to being a Tarot snob to some extent, but I'm not discounting the validity of simpler decks. For example, I love classical music of all kinds, but I'll be the first to admit that it isn't as fun as Britney Spears. But as much as I have moods in which I much prefer Spears over Wagner, I can't delude myself that people will be listening to her two hundred years from now, and there are reasons for why this is so, and it has nothing to do with how satisfying or catchy her songs are. They are simply of a different calibre, made of different materials.
 

Curious Dragon

Now I'm craving a grilled cheese sandwich.
​
 

Pam O

Simple said:
Hahaha, that's how I feel too. I want a reliable car. Don't want a high maintenance car! :D
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I love my "reliable" decks. You know, those decks that always read well. Some are heavily illustrated. Others, like the Tarot Nova, are incredibly simple and give me very deep readings. It actually continues to amaze me.
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/nova/

And like gregory said, the Kitty Kahane has given me a message everytime I have picked it up. If I am stuck on a reading for someone, that is often the deck I grab. The colors match up on the cards and make certain symbols pop on the different readings.
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/kitty-kahane/

The Halloween Tarot is another (Kipling)

Here is a current list of my top favorites. (These are in no particular order.)
-Universal Fantasy
-Dreaming Way Tarot
-Nicoletta Ceccoli Tarot
-Deck of Bastard, Samhain edition II & reg edition by SevenStars
-Fantastic Menagerie
-Victorian Romantic
-Bohemian Gothic
-Shadowscapes
-Sun and Moon
-Touchstone by Kat Black
-Kitty Kahane
-Halloween Tarot (all year long)
-Morgan Greer
-Tarot of the Silicon Dawn
-CBD TdM
-Osho Zen
-Robin Wood
-Gill Tarot
-Tarot Nova (TAROT by Dennis Fairchild - Running Press)
-Tarot of Trees
-Rabbit Tarot
-Alice Tarot (Truly amazing multi-color foil accents!)
 

Farzon

closrapexa said:
Well, yes, to some extent. A Tarot artist may be highly enlightened but their capacity to convey that in a functional tool like Tarot may not be up to the task. Many people can paint petty pictures but a lot fewer can make a good Tarot deck, the talents are related but separate. There are some very simple books with profound messages, like The Giving Tree or The Little Engine that Could, but they simply cannot be compared to "real" novels that explore ideas in a fuller way with greater sophistication. The way you explain an idea to a child isn't the way you would explain it to an adult, even though the idea may be the same one. While both Shakespeare and Mother Goose both tell morality plays, one of them simply does it with more sophistication and scope. Mother Goose, however, still has a place in culture, albeit a very different place.

Now I'm certainly not saying that simple decks are childish. However, a good analogy would be that of a linguist. A small child can speak their native language very well, but it is the linguist who knows why the child speaks the way it does, where the words come from and why. Most people just speak their languages without exploring further, just as some people content themselves with merely doing readings, using Tarot rather than studying it. Some decks only "speak" in the Tarot language while others go deeper into the root causes of what makes each card what, and force you to learn the actual syntax and sentence structure of that same language. Simpler decks may be, as you say, satisfying to use, just as our cheese sandwich will satisfy our belly, but they will never be the "high" art of Tarot, however beautifully they may be illustrated, but the perfectly valid and useful "low" Tarot.

Now I admit to being a Tarot snob to some extent, but I'm not discounting the validity of simpler decks. For example, I love classical music of all kinds, but I'll be the first to admit that it isn't as fun as Britney Spears. But as much as I have moods in which I much prefer Spears over Wagner, I can't delude myself that people will be listening to her two hundred years from now, and there are reasons for why this is so, and it has nothing to do with how satisfying or catchy her songs are. They are simply of a different calibre, made of different materials.
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But sometimes the most simple songs are the best ones. Because in their simplicity they distill one grand idea, which can't be rivaled even by the most complex and most carefully selected harmonies.

Having said that, Tarot is not music. And decks like Thoth and Mary-El are not only intellectually constructed but also aesthetically pleasing.

And this is, at least to me, as important as the theoretical complexity. Reading the Tarot has two parts, of not three.
Looking at the cards and understanding their meaning (and a bit of sixth sense).
Beginners decks like the Shadowscapes work also perfectly well for me because of their beauty. It touches me.
 

Chimera Dust

I don't think that abstract decks are more or less advanced, or even absolutely necessary. That depends on each person and what their reading style is. There are some decks that have abstract imagery but could be suitable for beginners, and someone who is a beginner but does readings based on intuition can benefit from a more abstract, artsy deck from the start. On the other hand, it's possible to be at a more advanced level and still prefer more concrete imagery if that's something you feel a stronger connection with.
 

jillkite

i think it depends on your purpose and how you read.

i read therapeutically, so for me the dialogue with the sitter is very important alongside the messages of the cards. with less complex cards the sitter can see for themselves what i am talking about in the cards and i find that very helpful for us both.

i guess if you study tarot academically, and read in an elaborate and academic way, then more complex decks would be very interesting. however that's not me so i can't really comment.

for me the 5* meal is having a deep and clear conversation about the cards with the sitter so they really understand what the cards are telling them. for me this is very fulfilling.

i like to be able to clearly taste each flavour of the dish, i do not want the essential notes to get lost in complexity.
 

Simple

jillkite said:
i think it depends on your purpose and how you read.

i read therapeutically, so for me the dialogue with the sitter is very important alongside the messages of the cards. with less complex cards the sitter can see for themselves what i am talking about in the cards and i find that very helpful for us both.

i guess if you study tarot academically, and read in an elaborate and academic way, then more complex decks would be very interesting. however that's not me so i can't really comment.

for me the 5* meal is having a deep and clear conversation about the cards with the sitter so they really understand what the cards are telling them. for me this is very fulfilling.

i like to be able to clearly taste each flavour of the dish, i do not want the essential notes to get lost in complexity.
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That's awesome. I also find conversation with the sitter is satisfying too alongside with cards' messages. Personally, I prefer simple cuisine that is good, tasty and fill you up, not fine cuisine that's expensive and taste so astute I can't really tell difference! LOL
How did tarot turn into food topic again?
 

GlitterNova

I think this has gotten off topic a bit. To the OP: if you truly want to understand the answer to your question, you will need to temporarily abandon your personal value judgments regarding the complexity of symbology within tarot and take on those of someone who does use advanced or abstract decks (which have been explained here). The original question was 'why might one use these decks' and not 'are these decks better than others?'. Framing the question in that way is completely futile because it involves (totally subjective) judgments on the values of symbology within tarot art. Explaining why someone might use symbolically rich decks is not the same thing as putting down or lessening the importance of less symbolically rich decks. You asked why, they answered. Don't take it as an insult to your deck preference or reading style.
 

headincloud

Fascinating thread, you may have to excuse my blissful ignorance but I was under the impression the depth of what we see in a cards imagery (irrelevant of what that imagery is) is simply a reflection of what we've pinned onto that card through intellectual learning and personal experience.

I totally understand the need to gain insight and opinions through a variety of teachers/authors and explorations but I thought the purpose of the imagery was to spark our memories of knowledge and associations. By swapping the deck and using different imagery we loose the intuitive spark or at the very least have to mentally refer back to our mother cards and translate. Why would we do that? Why not just pin all our knowledge, experience and insights on to one deck? I'm no doubt missing something here but intrigued.

Advanced decks? syntax? what? I thought the language of tarot was intuition and the strive self illumination and until then I'm not sure I'm sold on swapping but each to their own. A good analogy would be superficial study of many religions rather than attaining enlightenment through in-depth study and understanding of one, to me we simply scatter our energies rather like 8W rx.
 
Percentage Distribution in Deck Talking to sprits?