When multiple readers are wrong

bluelagune

Thank you for answering my question!

And I ask all sorts of questions and I notice when I ask the cards how a relationship will work out, the cards usually turn out right. Not always though. Career questions are hit or miss. Simply Asking how someone feels is usually pretty accurate. I was wondering what it's like for everyone else since I know for a fact im not the only one who ask multiple readers the same question. We probably ask multiple readers the same question for different reasons but it's still the same practice nonetheless.... And I'm not afraid to admit it

Because you ask "will I get this job" ... you might but 20 years from now. Well the first time around you are dissapointed that you didnt. Its how you fraise the question to narrow your chances with the timeline and other such surprises.
 

ravenest

YES. (in that I totally agree with you, not that I agree you should do the blame thing !) The future is NOT set in stone. Or does ravenest believe in predestination ?

Ravenest believes if someone is saying they can predict the future they are saying they can predict what WILL happen.

He does believe in 'predestination', to an extent a but also in the wild random crazy Universal plan - whatever that is :) .

Also in regard to this ; "any decent predictive reading always offers a predicted path to the achieved outcome. "

I see that more as advice contained within ' tarot gnosis' ; eg. you chase after that money and devote your whole self to getting it it may rule you and you could become a slave to it. If you dont want that to happen; learn about how to use it and what it is, use it as a tool and then you will master it instead of 'selling your soul for gold'.

Again I thought 'prediction' was predicting an event that IS GOING to happen, not about predicting probabilities might happen.

If the Court Astrologer, or diviner , predicted a storm would stop the Spanish invasion ( as Dee did in 1588 - and got it right - the storm hit the Spanish Armada in the English channel and scattered the ships and disrupted the invasion plan ) and got it wrong and then he said to the Queen ; "Oh I was right at the time but the weather changed direction, time has not run out on it yet, quantum probability ran out ... or any one of a dozen other 'excuses' ....

What do you think would have happened to his job, reputation, future work prospects and perhaps his head ?
 

Sulis

Moderator note

Hi folks,

This thread seemed to be straying way off topic and was getting quite silly.

Please stick to the topic of the thread 'When multiple readers are wrong'.

Some posts have been removed.

Thank you.

Sulis & Alta - Talking Tarot co-moderators
 

EyeAmEye

He does believe in 'predestination', to an extent a but also in the wild random crazy Universal plan - whatever that is :) .

Also in regard to this ; "any decent predictive reading always offers a predicted path to the achieved outcome. "


Wouldn't wild random crazy Universal plan be the same as predestination? Would be more suitable to call it wild random crazy Universal un-plan.

I believe as you do, with maybe a degree more predestination, which is exactly why I do predictive readings. It's those predestined events I try to find in between the daily "What should I watch on TV tonight?" moments that I try to predict.

The problem is, most people (as do I at times) ask mundane questions that at the moment may seem important but aren't. The types of things that fall into the wild random crazy Universal un-plan, or in more concise terms, those events apt to be effected by the wild random crazy HUMAN plan, which can only be effectively predicted by understanding the nature of the querent and making a prediction based upon their behavioral patterns (which wouldn't require tarot at all) or by the querent actually following the advice of the reading.
 

Barleywine

I've been trying to put this debate into perspective since the beginning . . .

Let's see, there are 78 discrete bits of information (just going with the core concepts, not the subsidiary meanings), and each one can be expressed at numerous levels (i.e. practical - "What should I do?" emotional - "How should I feel?" philosophical - "What should I think?" spiritual - "What does the Cosmos think?" social - "What will my family and friends do/feel/think?"). Even taking a small cross-section of those possibilities into a spread, with all of the ways the cards can be combined for interpretation, I'd venture to say there are still hundreds of permutations that factor in to a final verdict. You do the math; I tried but it kind of got all "squishy" :)

My point is I'd be surprised if any two readers (never mind several) arrive at a prediction via the same (or even a remotely similar) set of considerations, unless the exact same cards appear in the exact same type of spread. Not to say the range of cards on the table shouldn't point to a common thread in the matter - all things being equal, they should converge upon a recognizably similar motif. But the other essential variable is the grasp of each reader with all of the nuances of the 78 data points and their fluidity when juxtaposed with any of their companions. Successful interpolation of so many strands of meaning strikes me as nothing short of alchemical. Some readers may completely miss a subtlety that others see as plainly as day.

In the end, this becomes a fruitless inquiry unless approached with a large number of case studies in hand. Anecdotal feedback is notoriously unreliable.
 

Michael Sternbach

First I am sorry if I am way off the topic.. I think my comment is related but if you find it useless, my deepest apologies.. :)

I am very interested in quantum mechanics and interference of energies and how free moving particles in the space, million miles from each other can effect each other's disposition and energies without direct interference.. and I guess its how a reading works.. by picking up on energies..

Now there is a theory which can be easily related to tarot, and that is for any given events there are many possibilities for outcome in the probability space.. at any given time when a reading is done, the reader is picking up on certain energies, and because there are more than one possibilities and also there are 78 tarot cards, using some mathematical calculations involving permutation and factorials, there are also many combinations of the tarot cards that can fit into any possible outcomes within the probability space.. so the reader has a choice of many combinations of cards to predict something that is likely to happen.. ie there is a certain probability of it happening.. Now here is an interesting thing that can happen, andit is that whenever a reading is done and one of the many possible outcomes is presented to the sitter, the energies within the possibility space for that particular events shifts.. and sometimes the reading changes the energies connected to a certain event.. every time the space for that particular event is looked at, ie focused on, it changes certain energies connected to that event, and that is why, sometimes the energies floating around a subject vary reading to reading.. that is not to say each of these readings were wrong.. its just that the energies shift as quantum mechanics states that dis- connected entities can effect each other in terms of the vibrations, and also because there are so many different combinations and permutations of possible outcomes that can match with many different combinations of the cards, any given reading at any particular moment in time could be correct, even though things can change as result of a second reading or generally the sub conscience mind of the sitter and the actions that follows as a result, even when they may not be so aware of their slight change of behaviour..
Th point I am trying to make in long is that, getting multiple readings sometimes is re-assuring, and I am guilty of doing it many times, but also we have to bear in mind that there is not only one possible outcome in the probability space and we also have many combinations of the cards that can be accurate for all the existing possibilities..

and as side note that is why although I use tarot to predict certain outcomes alot, but my preferred method of using it would be to ask for advice as to how to tap into the right energies to create my desired outcome from all the possible outcomes for that event in the probability space :)

I hope my comment is relevant .. :) xx

I find this short treatise rather brilliant.

I would like to add that probability has something to with what is probable (as opposed to merely possible).

So, for those of us who accept that we are not living in a Newtonian Universe, the question becomes, can Tarot readers predict what is probably going to happen?

The only way to explore this would be to compare the predictions of good readers with what actually happened later. If the readers were accurate in, let's say, 80% of the cases, then we could say, yes, it's possible to predict the probable future.
 

SunChariot

Have you ever had a reading where multiple readers told you a certain outcome would happen just for the opposite to manifest? If so then what was the subject ( relationship, career, finance, etc) of the reading and what was the nature ( predictive or trying to tap into someone's emotional status)?

I ask because I'm trying to see if there is a certain topic that tarot is better at reading and im curious which topics predictions are more likely to be agreed upon by multiple readers simply to turn out inaccurately.

Some say you shouldn't ask the same question to different readers so if you feel that way, I respect that but this question isn't directed at you. This is for people who think it's ok to ask multiple readers the same question. Note there is a difference between asking multiple readers versus asking the same question over and over to one reader just because you don't like the answer. I tend to ask multiple readers the same question when I get the answer I want just because it reassures me that maybe the first reader was right. If I get an answer that I don't like, I tend to drop it and move onto something else

No, I've never asked the same question to multiple readers. I may have done it once with two readers a long long time ago, but they did not seem to be inaccurate.

IF I had numerous readers all tell me the same thing and it did not come true, for me, I would presume that all the readings were correct. If many readers all say the same thing, it it would feel like too much to be coincidence to me.

A reading on the future is not inaccurate if what is said does not come true. Readings on the future can ONLY (and nothing more) predict the exact future we are heading towards at the exact moment in time we did the reading. That is all readings on the future can do. Often, usually even, that future stays the same and plays out, but not always.

The future can change after the time the reading was done, that is the nature of the future.
That does not mean the reading was not right. They may well have all been right, but then the future changed afterwards.

Sometimes something as seemingly simple as hearing the answers told to you in the readings can cause you to think, feel or act differently and that can be enough to change the future you asked about.

I personally believe Tarot can answer any topic at all, and all equally well.

I don't know if it's wrong to ask the same question to multiple readers. But I don't know that it is helpful to you. If you are a reader yourself, Tarot runs on faith to a large extent. You have to trust the cards will work for them to work well for you. The more trust and faith you have the easier things get.

Asking the same question to multiple readers to reassure yourself that the first one is right seems to me to show a lack of faith in the first reader. That lack of faith is could spread to your feelings about Tarot and that could affect your abilities as a reader.

Asking the same question over and over shows a lack of faith in Tarot, or maybe of your own skills. Neither is helpful to developing your skills imo, and yes the cards often stop answering when we do this.

Asking the same question to different readers is also, imo a lack of faith in Tarot or in the reader, just coming out in a different form.

The ideal solution in my mind (just my opinons) would be to try to work on building that faith. Asking the cards for ways to do that could be interesting and useful.

Hope that helps in some way.

Babs
 

SunChariot

Because you ask "will I get this job" ... you might but 20 years from now. Well the first time around you are dissapointed that you didnt. Its how you fraise the question to narrow your chances with the timeline and other such surprises.

This is so true. I try to suggest querents always include a time-frame when they ask about the future. Otherwise if you ask what will happen in the future or something you could mean this year and the cards could be talking about something 25 years in your future. Clarity in the wording of a question can be important.

Babs
 

closerwalking

So ~ if you get two readers that concur on the same outcome but then that outcome is 'incorrect' - what does that prove? And for this you continue to search for two readers that will give you another answer that proves correct?

I don't have enough hours in a day to be doing that much work!

Again - perhaps Tarot is not the oracle that you need to seek out.


I agree with Tarotbear, it seems that the universe is telling you quit looking for answers this way. why waste your time and energy, as well as waste the time and energy of the readers? If you sincerely want help/answers, the way will show up that is ideally suited for you. for the underlying need, or deepest question/quest. more and more I am seeing how universe, or my true self, gives me clues, rather like the hot/cold game. much more rewarding to move towards growing warm directions.