Circle For Unorthodox Readers

LadyZelda

First The Clover: Overall, this card leaves me feeling happy and content....the whole scene just feels good.

Yeah, me too! :D

Love:...the main clover flower is large and the two smaller clover flowers are on either side of the large one, which gives an idea of mother/child or father/child relationship to me. This could further my thoughts of a feeling of protection and guidance, and especially with the two lady bugs holding the smaller clover flowers. Perhaps it may even mean spiritual guidance under the direction of a parent or another?

Good point! I will say to link that to the main theme of The Clover (as this loving/nurturing/guiding relationship can be the main theme of another card), that it would then be that all the relationships and guidance would come “at the appointed time”, like an unexpected thing, like when “luck” knocks at your door. Can be a blooded relationship as well as a “mother, father, big brother/sister” impersonated in a stranger who acts as such…and one could say “I’m lucky to have met, or have such friend”, that person made the difference…

Career: a guidance counselor or counselor of any type perhaps. A spirit guide/spiritual guidance person, such as a priest or shaman or other spiritually led guide. A director of sorts who directs in such a way that it is always pleasant. Also something to do with theatre or dance--as these clover flowers seem to be dancing or could be giving a performance.?

Same here I will say that all works together to enable the querent to find/cross path with a guide/counselor/mentor just at the right time, right when it was needed and because of such person everything turns for the best for the querent, a door opens, same as "luck is at the door" and a position turns up in the theatre/dancing area, etc…

Spiritually:... Also, lady bugs are symbolic of the Blessed Mother, in fact they were apparently given the name "Lady Bug" in honor of the BM. So, I would have to consider this as well in the reading if this card appeared. Maybe it could even mean motherly love and guidance?

This is cool!!! I didn’t know that! The Blessed Mother does have many names like also “Stella Maris” the Star of the Sea, or Kuan Yin for the Chinese people…

So like for the others I believe that what you said is possible while keeping the theme of the Clover which is “luck”.
I believe that because there are enough cards in the Oracle to cover many subjects, and because each card has a “main theme” when we interpret the card in diverse topic such as “health, love, etc…” it would be preferable to always keep the “main theme” of the card in mind while adapting it with the additional details that the art gives as well as the topic. But that is my opinion and this is in no way an “absolute” ;)



Timing: I have to fall back on the fact of going with the number '2' here on the card would lead me to say timing would be a '2'. This could be 2 days, 2weeks, 2 months, or 2yrs. Though because it is also a very green colored card, this makes me feel like the season would be spring. Though I also keep thinking the 2nd month of the year--February.

Yeah, that is one possible way, I guess we will really know as we keep practicing with the oracle. I have seen many people struggle with getting the timing accurate. I have found other ways to time with the Oracle like the kind of spread you use, or the position of the card. Moreover, I believe that the future is always in movement, and timing can keep on changing with every decision, action, step we take…by a mistake we can delay a “future event” or we can make it come faster….I guess we’ll have to experiment! ;)



Yes, these are the planetary & astrological symbols for each of the cards. I'm not sure what to think of the symbols that are on the other cards, such as the ship. The ship card has the symbol IX in the upper right hand corner--but not sure what it should symbolize, unless you just go with the number symbolism on this?

Thanks! :) We then definitely have a planetary/astro pattern with this symbols in the right corner...
Personally, I don't think that the numbers in the upper right corner would be to interpret as just number. I wish the LWB would have let us know what the artist meant for all the symbols placed in the upper right corner...but then, again it is fun to go on that quest and find out on our own...

Thanks for the link that was a good site! here are some more:

http://www.astrotheme.com/astrology_houses.php
http://www.starwolfastrology.com/AstrologicalLibrary/AstrologicalHouses.html


Now for the ship:...it looks almost like the whale is smiling, so it could indicate that the client has dealt with something emotional or perhaps has finally found a way to do so, since the whale is swimming in tune w/the ship? full speed ahead! that is the general meaning if tied to an emotional issue.

Good point! Yeah, emotions are involved with the need to go. Often time a trip is advised to people who are depressed, who just got divorced, or widowed…

Love:... but perhaps it is speaking of a good long relationship....so perhaps it would speak of the current relationship one is in will be a long happy one? however, I do not believe whales mate for life, so this throws the card out of sync a bit with that, doesn't it?

I think so too! the Ship does have a sense of length of time. And the card is for me positive, by itself of course, then combinations can make the tide turn...For the whales mating or not for life, well, some say that the Killer Whale mates for life. Still, on the picture it looks more like a humpback whale...but who knows. Personally, I would not let the detail of the whale "love" life influence my interpretation as it is not the main theme. The Ring for example seems to speak more about lifelong commitments (at least it does so far...didn't study on it yet;) ) So, I will say for the Ship, the main theme is about "travel, going places, etc...", so if I would think that the reading suggests a travel and a romantic encounter during that trip, or that a couple is taking a romantic trip, I would not touch in either case the length of the relationship and let other cards give me that detail. Thus, the "whale" symbolism would not be a problem as whether they mate for life or not.


Spiritually: ...whales are also symbolic of life and death--so I could see this as a spiritual breakthrough with the spiritual side of things for a client if this card popped up. ships can be seen as exploring ones emotions, if you dream of ships, so I would have to consider this as well.

Good point!

Very interesting study, thanks for sharing! :D
 

Empath111

The Clover

(Copied from first post in the old thread..added some more)
mystical
again, trying to not look too much at others and try on my own..then check what others get
well, pretty evident as I look at the 4 leafs and the lady bugs it is a lucky card!
The ladybugs -one playing a violin and the other some sort of horn. happiness, easy-going. go-with the flow sort of energy with that.
The faces in the flowers are a bit strange to me so I am having a hard time with that. two on the side look happy and the middle one...hmm..maybe open to hearing anything? They sort of look like they are dancing to the music...They now look to me like they are swaying in the wind perhaps. Flexibility. able to adapt. This also goes with my "go with the flow" feeling above.

I also will ad something I've learned here before. You try to feel the "energy" of the card. Used to do this face down before flipping it over. pretty cool. so I'll try it out:
OK, when I did this I felt very uplifted. My energy went up into my chest towards my throat. Thinking of chakras. I smiled too. So it is a happy card I feel. One that should lift up other cards. I also wonder with the throat chakra if it helps to open that up- certainly a happy heart. Maybe being able to express joy or happiness..let's say perhaps in a relationship you could so good you want to say it aloud. That might go along with the expression of dancing. So pleased you find ways to express it. The 'rays" coming from the tallest clover/face make it seem like it is beaming.

finances: good luck - lucky break in which something sort of just happened. Didn't have to work very hard for it. Add: A surprise that brings a surge of excitement. So maybe like I have heard- a lottery win. Or maybe like a holiday bonus. Or a bigger raise than expected.

Career: something good that happens, not huge. But maybe a nice surprise? Again..a surprise, but i am changing my tune to something that is unexpectedly bigger. You are told something good about your work. Given praise or a compliment.


Love: Easy-breezy something positive. A certain look or glance someone may give you that makes you feel all warm inside. A surprise that makes you feel a little giddy. A nice flow or union with someone..conversation just flows..is easy. Surprisingly easy and positive. Nothing huge, just small stuff that makes you smile. No big commitments. The feeling I had was almost fluttering - joyful. So now I am thinking maybe like a crush- and you find out your crush likes you back. Or a person of interest (crush sounds so young- but remember that feeling?). Someone expresses their feelings in one way or another.

Health: Good fortune.. good bill of health if asked if something is wrong. Or if sickness is known, gentle recovery..slow but not much pain..it will just improve without much intervention. Unexpected good news. You were afraid you may have something wrong but then you find out you are healthy. the breast biopsy came back negative for example..relief and joy.

Timing: Quick. Days. Maybe 3-4 days.

OK, off to read what you guys wrote! Will do the ship as soon as I can :)
 

Empath111

I love what you wriote! i didn't peek at yours or CN's before I wrote mine. I am happily surprised I hit quite a few points you did!
Here is my interpretation of the Clover using the Mystical Lenormand.

2- The Clover

Interpretation of symbolisms:

Right upper corner, we have an arrow symbol. Possibly the planetary symbol of “Mars” even if the circle isn’t clearly shown; if it would be so, then it gives a detail about having a quick mind to “seize” lucky opportunities, being energetic being a "go getter".

Possibly, astrological sign of The Sagittarius: This symbol invites us to be optimistic and hopeful, anything linked to luck requires a positive, optimistic mind to carry through, be adventurous ready to jump in the water, in other words if luck passes by, seize it, act on it, buy that lottery ticket, act fast because it won’t wait on you!

The arrow in general represents:
Speed, aiming for a target, getting what you want as long as you quickly act and shoot your arrow right on target.
I don't know the signs. But i saw the arrow and didn't mention it. i really like your interpretation because the quickness and optimistic attitudes were my themes too. I like the term "optimistic".
The 4 leaf Clover:
This is a well-known good luck charm, fulfillment of wishes… these clovers are dancing and seem very happy. Happiness is linked to this strike of luck. They invite us to rejoice at the opportunity, at luck that is at our door. There are 3 of clover plants showing prosperity, increase.
And the fact that they are in full bloom also indicates that whatever we have started will prosper, things are ripe for the taking, and behind the clovers is radiance, so it is like all has been set up for good fortune, the energy of the universe has been set in motion to give us success. Magic is in the air!
The fact that they are “red clovers” (as opposed to the white clovers) indicates vitality, being active, energetic and also the red clover in itself is a very nutritious plant, as a forage it is very satisfying to livestock. Which symbolically would mean that we would be very satisfied with the end results, whatever happens will bring contentment.
Magic, proper..great words! I felt that "magical" feeling but could not describe as you did- great word. I didn't even think of the colors- love that you did and your interpretation.
The 2 ladybugs:
They are symbol of luck, and love. 2 of them talks about unity telling us also to cooperate with the universe as luck knocks at our door, if we want to get the benefits from it. Ladybugs are believed to be messengers between the physical realm and spiritual realm. When you are “lucky” to have one land on you, it is the sign that you are invited to express your desires, wishes, request to the “universe” or any deity you worship. Thus, you are supposed to tell all about it to the Ladybug which will carry this message for you; and you are also assured to have your request answered, or to see your desire or wish come true.
The Ladybug also speaks of “seizing” the moment, because it won’t stay on you all day long! You are supposed to act quickly before it flies away.
I didn't mention the ladybugs much- I know they are important but an oversight. Just mentioned them playing the instruments. I love the "seize the moment" pick-up. I had NO idea they were messengers from the physical-->spiritual realm- thank you for that! Desires/wishes- again, great feelings I sensed - but you came up with the words! message carrier- never thought of it!

General meaning:

Luck in any area, doors are opening wide, success, positive turn of a situation, things are blooming, progressing in the right direction, prosperity, opportunity, sudden turn of the wheel for the better, improvement, gambling, winning if one participate in any gambling, drawing, or game. This card has a symbol of speed attached to it, thus it invite to “seize” the opportunity, to step in as soon as the door of luck opens because it will not remain like that.
I like this- I have similar stuff :)
Health:
A turn for the better, good health. Herbal remedies are suggested.
Herbal remedies. cool. never thought of it!
Financial:
Lucky gain, sudden outpouring of money, lucky investment, prosperity
similar stuff for me too
Love:
Finding a partner when not expecting it, being at the right time at the right place to meet someone, a relationship gets another chance. Now is the time to declare your flame, don't miss the opportunity!...
Love not missing the opportunity- great pick-up!
Career:
Unexpected opportunity, luck with a job application, promotion granted, get the job you dreamed of and that seemed inaccessible
Wow- ours are VERY similar!
Spiritually:
Time to contact the spiritual realm, you will be heard. Good connection with the spiritual realm. Happy spiritual endeavors, opportunity to bloom spiritually.
I missed covering this topic. Very good interpretations. Love the "opportunity to bloom spiritually"
Timing:
Quick.

(It is said: sudden and unexpected within 4 days, or that the number 2 can indicate 2 days, 2 weeks, etc…)
ahh- I said 3-4 days:) Glad we are close- I said quick too! How did I miss adding the number 2? haha
The 6 of Diamond in the Carta Mundi:
Speaks of gifts, rewards, financial gain. The suit of Diamond is linked to finance and material things.

Question:
Does any of you know for sure if the arrow symbol in the right upper corner is about the planetary or astrological symbol or just an arrow??? ;)
let me get my handy-dandy book.
Steinbach: "The ruler of the cover is Jupiter (good fortune). The Astrological sign is Sagittarius-fire element-(November 21st-December21st). The clover's month is February (second month of the year)."

*I only looked up Steinbach's interpretation. Might be different with the old school. i can look that up too.
 

Empath111

Okay, the Clover and The Ship--

First The Clover:

Overall, this card leaves me feeling happy and content. The clover flower in my Lenromand deck, (The Mystical Lenormand) seems to be dancing with two other clover flowers that are carried by two lady bugs. the whole scene just feels good.

Now, I realize I didn't do this interpretation with all these factors in the first card--so will do so from now on.
I had the same feeling:)
Health: Good health, and perhaps because the flowers seem to be rejoicing in a sort of dance, perhaps it could even mean a return to good health. I couldn't help but to see a part of what LZ posted on this and it is invading my thoughts, so I will put down also that it could indicate herbal remedies being used. I'd especially think this now that I read it by LZ, because I also know that clover is an herb that can be used for many ailments.
rejoicing is a great word! I like how you linked the clover to herb. the flowers also remind me of some sort of herb I can't put my finger on....
I missed the whole herb piece.
Financial: Since the clover is also thought of as a good luck symbol, and especially if it is a 4 leaf clover, which in my card the main clover is a 4 leaf clover, I'd say there is a strong possibility of financial gain here in this card. some luck coming the clients way.
:) i agree
Love: As card for love, I feel again it would be indicative of happiness and content in love--any love relationship--not just a man/woman love relationship, but among any relationship. It also seems to indicate a parental relationship, as the main clover flower is large and the two smaller clover flowers are on either side of the large one, which gives an idea of mother/child or father/child relationship to me. This could further my thoughts of a feeling of protection and guidance, and especially with the two lady bugs holding the smaller clover flowers. Perhaps it may even mean spiritual guidance under the direction of a parent or another?
I love the parental relationship- one larger (parent) 2 smaller. great pick-up! Protection and guidance - another thing I didn't think of. great pick ups!
Career: a guidance counselor or counselor of any type perhaps. A spirit guide/spiritual guidance person, such as a priest or shaman or other spiritually led guide. A director of sorts who directs in such a way that it is always pleasant. Also something to do with theatre or dance--as these clover flowers seem to be dancing or could be giving a performance.
Never thought of a guide or counselor. Is that because one is larger than the two? (flowers). Great pick up again. Theater or dance is perfect!
Spiritually: Again, as I mentioned above under the heading of love--This could further my thoughts of a feeling of protection and guidance, and especially with the two lady bugs holding the smaller clover flowers. Perhaps it may even mean spiritual guidance under the direction of a parent or another? Also, lady bugs are symbolic of the Blessed Mother, in fact they were apparently given the name "Lady Bug" in honor of the BM. So, I would have to consider this as well in the reading if this card appeared. Maybe it could even mean motherly love and guidance?
Spiritual guidance - again, missed that. Not to muddy the waters, but almost like the Hierophant? I did NOT know the ladybugs are a sign of the Blessed Mother (now recall you wrote this in last post) and I love this! Again, motherly love is perfect. It also brings in your thought of protection! :)
Timing: I have to fall back on the fact of going with the number '2' here on the card would lead me to say timing would be a '2'. This could be 2 days, 2weeks, 2 months, or 2yrs. Though because it is also a very green colored card, this makes me feel like the season would be spring. Though I also keep thinking the 2nd month of the year--February.
I really missd the "2" here. Duh on my part. LOL! I agree with Spring!! Early spring for some reason...
Yes, these are the planetary & astrological symbols for each of the cards. the arrow on the clover card is assigned to the planet Mars, which shows passion. here is a site that I found that has the glyphs that are on some of the cards covered. I'm not sure what to think of the symbols that are on the other cards, such as the ship. The ship card has the symbol IX in the upper right hand corner--but not sure what it should symbolize, unless you just go with the number symbolism on this?

http://vicdicara.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/symbols-and-glyphs-of-astrology/

I didn't even think of this before and it may be wise to do so, of course. perhaps this website I mentioned above will help us further--or perhaps someone knows of a better site?
So i think I gave different info from my Steinback book, so I am glad you found this.
I loved reading both your and LZ's interpretations. This is a great learning experience for me:)
I will comment on the ship after I study it. Trying not to peek! :D
 

LadyZelda

....They now look to me like they are swaying in the wind perhaps. Flexibility. able to adapt. This also goes with my "go with the flow" feeling above.

Good point! Flexibility, yeah, precisely! That is why some people have "luck" passing by them, but they miss it! Why? because they are so rigid with their thinking, with what they want, and how they are going to reach their goal, so rigid with their expectations how it is going to unfold what is it going to be...Their mind is made up, there is no room for anything different...But like you said, flexibility, being able to adapt, this is part of "seizing luck" as it passes by us and be ready to be unexpectedly happy with the results!;)

...My energy went up into my chest towards my throat. Thinking of chakras. I smiled too. So it is a happy card I feel. One that should lift up other cards. I also wonder with the throat chakra if it helps to open that up- certainly a happy heart. Maybe being able to express joy or happiness...

Very interesting! Yeah, I do believe this card is a "happy card" and can "lift up other cards", for just a spark of luck can turn a situation around, it is like the rainbow appearing during the storm...sunshine is coming through! I did think of Chakras as I read...and I think that when one experiences "luck", "an opportunity", a "turn of the wheel for the better", it can help to boost confidence, and therefore help with expressing oneself... Because it is a positive time, loaded with positive energy, this is enough to give wings to the caterpillar...


finances:....Didn't have to work very hard for it...bigger raise than expected.

Good point! That is what it is all about, good things happen, suddenly, a turn of the wheel...we just have to be ready to receive!
 

Empath111

Good point! Flexibility, yeah, precisely! That is why some people have "luck" passing by them, but they miss it! Why? because they are so rigid with their thinking, with what they want, and how they are going to reach their goal, so rigid with their expectations how it is going to unfold what is it going to be...Their mind is made up, there is no room for anything different...But like you said, flexibility, being able to adapt, this is part of "seizing luck" as it passes by us and be ready to be unexpectedly happy with the results!;)



Very interesting! Yeah, I do believe this card is a "happy card" and can "lift up other cards", for just a spark of luck can turn a situation around, it is like the rainbow appearing during the storm...sunshine is coming through! I did think of Chakras as I read...and I think that when one experiences "luck", "an opportunity", a "turn of the wheel for the better", it can help to boost confidence, and therefore help with expressing oneself... Because it is a positive time, loaded with positive energy, this is enough to give wings to the caterpillar...




Good point! That is what it is all about, good things happen, suddenly, a turn of the wheel...we just have to be ready to receive!

Thanks for your feedback! You connected some dots for me! Having fun with this. :)
 

celticnoodle

I also will ad something I've learned here before. You try to feel the "energy" of the card. Used to do this face down before flipping it over. pretty cool. so I'll try it out:
OK, when I did this I felt very uplifted. My energy went up into my chest towards my throat. Thinking of chakras. I smiled too. So it is a happy card I feel. One that should lift up other cards. I also wonder with the throat chakra if it helps to open that up- certainly a happy heart. Maybe being able to express joy or happiness..let's say perhaps in a relationship you could so good you want to say it aloud. That might go along with the expression of dancing. So pleased you find ways to express it. The 'rays" coming from the tallest clover/face make it seem like it is beaming.
interesting thing to incorporate into figuring out the card. thanks for the idea. I'll try to remember to do this next time with the next two cards.
 

celticnoodle

Never thought of a guide or counselor. Is that because one is larger than the two? (flowers). Great pick up again. Theater or dance is perfect!
yep. exactly-because of the size of the one clover.

Spiritual guidance - again, missed that. Not to muddy the waters, but almost like the Hierophant? I did NOT know the ladybugs are a sign of the Blessed Mother (now recall you wrote this in last post) and I love this! Again, motherly love is perfect. It also brings in your thought of protection! :)
Yes, exactly. seeing lady bugs makes me automatically think of the BM and thus motherly love and protection.

So i think I gave different info from my Steinback book, so I am glad you found this.
I loved reading both your and LZ's interpretations. This is a great learning experience for me:)
I will comment on the ship after I study it. Trying not to peek! :D
thank you. I'm enjoying learning the cards this way too and reading everyone's thoughts. Now, you mention you are using the Mystical Lenormand, which is what I'm using too, but mine is by Regula Elizabeth Fiechter. My lady bugs were not playing any instruments--just carrying the smaller two clovers.

Looking forward to seeing what you get for the ship too. :D
 

Empath111

interesting thing to incorporate into figuring out the card. thanks for the idea. I'll try to remember to do this next time with the next two cards.

I got it from here when I was in the beginner's circle of readers. You know, we'd be matched up with someone. The person leading the read suggested we pull the cards and keep them face down. Then place your hand on top of each one and just write down ANYTHING you felt.

I was amazed at how I'd feel a pit in my stomach with say..the 10 of swords. or the 7 of cups maybe a swirl in my head. Then I'd get ungrounded from it. It was really a fascinating idea she had. I haven't done it in a while!
 

LadyZelda

Steinbach: "....The Astrological sign is Sagittarius-fire element..."

Yeah, I found out also that it actually is the Sagittarius! Even if the little "cross mark" that is usely on the symbol of the Sagittarius is not clearly made, it is visibly just an artistic variation of it with that little "loop" the artist drew...and for Mars, it is a bigger stretch of the symbol as normally the circle is supposed to be at the base of the arrow....

But what made up my mind about this being the symbol of the Sagittarius is that yesterday, after posting and reading CN's interpretation I got so curious about all the symbols on the upper right corner of the cards that I went ahead and looked through the entire deck!

Well, if I had done that first I would not have posted 2 possibilities for the symbol on the Clover card!!! duh....on me!

And guess what??? In the end it is clear and simple! Just look at The Gentlemen card....and...yep! here we have "a clean, accurate, beyond the shadow of a doubt" symbol of the planet "Mars"! so, now there is no more wondering, on the Clover it can only be the symbol of "the Sagittarius" because the artist would not have put the same symbol twice!;)
S. Steinback was right on target!