BOTA membership

sdba2271

In defense of BOTA

I'm not a member of BOTA, but am a member of an offshoot organization from BOTA. Many seem to be forgetting a few key things about BOTA. It's not instant gratification. It's formed as a church, school and a business. They need this to make the money in order to operate ad provide the lessons they teach. The actual cost of the course is quite cheap compared to other "schools". Once again BOTA is a Mystery School with a graded curriculum that starts you out at the very beginner level. IMO, there is no better course on tarot. Having been formed in the early 1920's BOTA has stood the test of time, as has the course material. If you can find a better tarot course..show me and impress me. I have yet to be impressed by another. As has been said before the BOTA does not teach tarot for divination, but it's more ancient use as a tool of inner development. Unfortunately in this fast-food society, the ability to be able to progress at a slower pace is often cause for disappoinment. You are expected to master the previous material, or as it is said within Masonry "having made suitable proficiency in the preceding degree". If this has not happened there is no advancment. Also some seem to forget that membership and progress within a Mystery School is a privelige, not a right, so once again disappointment is often had. The complete BOTA course takes between 13-15 years to complete. To do so takes an enormous amount of dedication and persistence. There have been people who have done so. As I said, I do not belong to BOTA, but am familiar with them and their course. I belong to a more Golden Dawn based offshoot of the BOTA. I would encourage interested people to view the following sites...

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1896/neophyte.html

And the Fraternity of the Hidden Light...

http://www.lvx.org

In L.V.X.
Frater Q.U.D.
 

jmd

Welcome to Aeclectic, sdba2271.

As you mention, BOTA, SOL, AMORC and others are not there for instant gratification, but are rather set up with the claim of perpetrating ancient mystery teachings and a path of initiation.

With regards to Tarot (and Kabalah, for that matter), however, and given that its contents have much since been published, it is not so much that is may or not be a very good study course IF AND ONLY IF ONE ACCEPTS GOLDEN DAWN TYPE ATTRIBUTIONS, but rather whether what and how it offers and claims is consistent with its promises. Unlike the impression it gives, the materials are available quite readily - and for this, its HQ in LA (beautiful place, by the way!) need to have a look at what is put out, and thus partly also agree with the criticisms thus made.

Its GD-type orientation is, of course, for some of us the main issue, and at odds with, for example, the OKRC.

Personally, I find the informal 'course' (or actually 'courseS') that are herein ongoing of far more worth with regards to Tarot than the BOTA's.

Fr A:.S:.
 

mac22

sdba2271 said:
I'm not a member of BOTA, but am a member of an offshoot organization from BOTA. Many seem to be forgetting a few key things about BOTA. It's not instant gratification. It's formed as a church, school and a business. They need this to make the money in order to operate ad provide the lessons they teach. The actual cost of the course is quite cheap compared to other "schools". Once again BOTA is a Mystery School with a graded curriculum that starts you out at the very beginner level. IMO, there is no better course on tarot. Having been formed in the early 1920's BOTA has stood the test of time, as has the course material. If you can find a better tarot course..show me and impress me. I have yet to be impressed by another. As has been said before the BOTA does not teach tarot for divination, but it's more ancient use as a tool of inner development. Unfortunately in this fast-food society, the ability to be able to progress at a slower pace is often cause for disappoinment. You are expected to master the previous material, or as it is said within Masonry "having made suitable proficiency in the preceding degree". If this has not happened there is no advancment. Also some seem to forget that membership and progress within a Mystery School is a privelige, not a right, so once again disappointment is often had. The complete BOTA course takes between 13-15 years to complete. To do so takes an enormous amount of dedication and persistence. There have been people who have done so. As I said, I do not belong to BOTA, but am familiar with them and their course. I belong to a more Golden Dawn based offshoot of the BOTA. I would encourage interested people to view the following sites...

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1896/neophyte.html

And the Fraternity of the Hidden Light...

http://www.lvx.org

In L.V.X.
Frater Q.U.D.
Click to expand...


I'm no neophyte I've spent 30+ on the path...I understand delayed gratification. As for "the better course" I believe I've found it The Tarot School of NY correspondence course degree program www.tarotschool.com/

I'm working on lesson 1 I expect to turn in between 25-30 pgs typed as I complete the various parts of lesson 1..... According to the instructor no one has yet completed the course. I intend to be the first...:D
 

mac22

sdba2271,

If we use your figures for initiation by correspondence that would come to $8112 for the minimum of 13 yrs. And there is no proof of any kind that the person will be any more enlightened in Tarot than when they started. While I certainly agree the Tarot can take a lifetime to learn PFC certainly did it w/o paying any group to teach him.
 

mzoltarp

to mac22

Thanks for the lvx.org source. As a newbie I found the site to be very much what I have been looking for.
 

mac22

Well I'm several lessons into the BOTA course and I have yet to see anything that I have not seen/read elsewhere....
 

wandking

Mac, I certainly understand your frustration regarding an occult order appearing too materialistic, although I beg to differ with this entry; "no proof of any kind that the person will be any more enlightened in Tarot than when they started." Enlightenment, whether attained in a group or solitary, is all about attitude. In my humble experience, each minute I've spent studying Tarot is a minute dedicated to greater enlightenment. I adopt no prescribed pattern in my studies, however, I simply follow historic leads and my heart. Mine is a solitary path and like many shared paths such as BOTA, isn't right for everyone. I find Tarot enlightening but true enlightenment does not necessarily include Tarot. I strongly suspect Buddha (the enlightened one) never saw a Tarot deck. Buddha said, "The greatest gift you can give others is enlightenment" and "Knowing others is wisdom; Knowing the self is enlightenment" good luck on your quest
 

mac22

wandking said:
Mac, I certainly understand your frustration regarding an occult order appearing too materialistic, although I beg to differ with this entry; "no proof of any kind that the person will be any more enlightened in Tarot than when they started." Enlightenment, whether attained in a group or solitary, is all about attitude. In my humble experience, each minute I've spent studying Tarot is a minute dedicated to greater enlightenment. I adopt no prescribed pattern in my studies, however, I simply follow historic leads and my heart. Mine is a solitary path and like many shared paths such as BOTA, isn't right for everyone. I find Tarot enlightening but true enlightenment does not necessarily include Tarot. I strongly suspect Buddha (the enlightened one) never saw a Tarot deck. Buddha said, "The greatest gift you can give others is enlightenment" and "Knowing others is wisdom; Knowing the self is enlightenment" good luck on your quest
Click to expand...

If not enlightenment & illumination then what is the purpose of the course?
 

wandking

All I'm saying is that we can find enlightenment anywhere, including an overtly materialistic occult order, if we remain open to the possibility. In your case I suspect BOTA offers no enlightenment because it wasn't what you expected. At one time I entertained the idea of joining BOTA because of the impressive writings of Paul Foster Case. If your membership allows it, you might consider reading some of his work. Perhaps that will partially offset any material loss you incurred. As I wrote earlier, thanks for the warning about BOTA.
 

mac22

wandking said:
All I'm saying is that we can find enlightenment anywhere, including an overtly materialistic occult order, if we remain open to the possibility. In your case I suspect BOTA offers no enlightenment because it wasn't what you expected. At one time I entertained the idea of joining BOTA because of the impressive writings of Paul Foster Case. If your membership allows it, you might consider reading some of his work. Perhaps that will partially offset any material loss you incurred. As I wrote earlier, thanks for the warning about BOTA.
Click to expand...

I've read a great deal of Case, including quite a bit that was privately printed. It was my great respect for the author's works that I joined BOTA.

Afraid I'll have to disagree with you on BOTA being an overtly materialistic order. Their core and base are mystical/spiritual. Case left the Golden Dawn in part because he objected to the second orders use of Enochian magic.

My general disagreement with BOTA is their stilted 1920s-1950s approach to distance learning teaching. To date I haven't seen anything in the course I had not found and assimilated by my early 20s [I'm now in my fifth decade].

Currently I'm taking the degree course from the Tarot School of NY [see my thread on this] where I am getting 1 to 1 instruction with an instructor with 40 years+ working with the Tarot. I find the course both relevant & challenging.
 
Which Haindl Book?? Books on numerology