Ethics: Love Spreads vs Privacy

gregory

prudence said:
Exactly, and I do wish we could come up with a more accurate comparison than reading a diary or putting hidden cameras into people's homes.
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Fair comment. See into their heads, then. Which is nebulous - just as reading the cards is. (And actually, in a way, creepier... :eek:)
prudence said:
Well, okay, certain third party readings I do find distasteful or just plain wrong. Asking how a man enjoys a sexual relationship with you versus his wife or current girlfriend just seem too intrusive and specific. I have seen a reading asking how a man's relationship with his terminally ill wife is versus how it would be with her, the reader/seeker, including questions about their sexual life. I found that reading to be not just callous but wrong on every level. I did comment on and help with the reading though. It was not a reading I gave to someone and if someone were to ask me such a question, I would not read on it.
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Yes - this and many more "less intrusive" questions go far too far, for me.

Laura Borealis said:
One way to look at it is to imagine you're the one who's the object of such a reading.

If I found out someone did a reading to find out how I felt about them, I'd probably be a little uncomfortable. Depending on what the reading was about, I might even be irritated. I'd compare it to finding out someone had been praying for me to "be saved" or something. I'd be annoyed but I'd probably just roll my eyes.
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I would tell the reader I had minded and I would tell the person who asked for that reading to stuff themselves. I honestly wouldn't want to be around someone who wouldn't just ask me.
If someone read my emails, though :mad: I'd definitely have words with them, and I'd never trust them again. Probably I'd shut them out of my life.
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Oh this. This this this UGH.
Metafizzypop said:
On another issue, I do understand that sometimes the second party might not want the first party to know certain things. But then, if someone is keeping things hidden from their girlfriend/boyfriend, the reasons usually aren't good.
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I would disagree there. I have known (just as frinstances) a girl who couldn't unfreeze in bed who was NOT ready to tell her partner that her brother had raped her as a kid and a guy who knew that his GF was TOTALLY disgusted by homosexuals who was wondering what she would do if she ever found out his - um - public school (UK) history - where sexual activity among boys right up to 19 years of age and with staff - is rampant. (And yes, I wouldn't want to be with someone that bigoted either, but there you go.)

And we are all entitled to privacy. This "share everything warts and all if you are committed" is utter bullshit. I will have been married 50 years come December - and there are a few things I have never chosen to share with him (and wouldn't want to) - and I am willing to bet he is the same. I would NEVER go to a reader to ask what he isn't telling me, and I bloody well hope he wouldn't do that kind of thing either.
 

prudence

gregory said:
Fair comment. See into their heads, then. Which is nebulous - just as reading the cards is. (And actually, in a way, creepier... :eek:)
no, seeing into ones head using tarot cards is as vague and yes nebulous as using sunset photos to gauge a personality disorder. What exactly do you think you see when looking into someone's feelings about another with tarot that you would be convinced you are seeing so much it might as well be a diary or cctv footage?
It is not and never will be as specific and intrusive and creepy as reading diaries or texts or emails, or seeing into a persons head, and it will never be like watching hidden camera footage.
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PeonyInLove

Haha the long held debate that's divides the tarot world lol

Humans are social beings. Without interaction of any kind with others we wld go insane. It's just a normal part of human evolution that we are so concerned about our loved ones thoughts, feelings and actions. I actually think it's not normal to 'not' want to know about others.

Would I read someone's diary? Would I stalk them? Would I video tape them? HELL NO! Would I ask my guides to send me clarity about someone's intentions, behaviour and feelings? HELL YES.

What's the difference? With the diary and video tape etc I have solid, tangible, hard evidence in my hands.

With the tarot it's intangible, subject to change, fundamentally based on ones self, difficult if not sometimes impossible to prove.
 

gregory

prudence said:
no, seeing into ones head using tarot cards is as vague and yes nebulous as using sunset photos to gauge a personality disorder. What exactly do you think you see when looking into someone's feelings about another with tarot that you would be convinced you are seeing so much it might as well be a diary or cctv footage?
It is not and never will be as specific and intrusive and creepy as reading diaries or texts or emails, or seeing into a persons head, and it will never be like watching hidden camera footage. )
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I don't know what happened to your post ... :confused:

Something that the person whose feelings I am seeing did not choose to reveal voluntarily, basically. So it is something in their head (where else would it be ??) that has not been willingly, voluntarily, shown to me or to my sitter.

And I just meant that the idea of someone looking into my head is creepy. Not that it is necessarily wildly specific (though there are people here who assure me that they CAN see very detailed specifics !) - just something that they had not chosen to share - which means, in my book, that it is invasive. See under that GHASTLY gaydar thread. Do you not think that trying to out someone - to see if they are suitable dating material - by using the cards is invasive ? At what point is the line between "well, that's harmless" and "YOU SHOULD MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS" should be drawn ?
 

prudence

gregory said:
I don't know what happened to your post ... :confused:
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I was on my ipad when i first replied and screwed it up, then later i tried to fix the post on my desk top mac. It turned into this.
Something that the person whose feelings I am seeing did not choose to reveal voluntarily, basically. So it is something in their head (where else would it be ??) that has not been willingly, voluntarily, shown to me or to my sitter.

And I just meant that the idea of someone looking into my head is creepy. Not that it is necessarily wildly specific (though there are people here who assure me that they CAN see very detailed specifics !) - just something that they had not chosen to share - which means, in my book, that it is invasive. See under that GHASTLY gaydar thread. Do you not think that trying to out someone - to see if they are suitable dating material - by using the cards is invasive ? At what point is the line between "well, that's harmless" and "YOU SHOULD MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS" should be drawn ?
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I really don't see it as that invasive at all. It just seems like a fairly normal question to ask of either your friends or of your cards. Unless your aim is to out someone and to ridicule and bully them about what you think you saw in the cards, i just don't see it as such a terrible question to ask. Would it be as awful if it were a gay man asking about a straight man, wondering if the straight appearing man was in fact gay, and so possible dating material? There really are questions you cannot bring yourself to ask someone face to face.

Where is this ghastly gaydar thread??
 

Metafizzypop

I enjoy Grizabella's view:

Grizabella said:
I think about this a lot and it's very, very difficult to leave others out of a reading and to read completely ONLY on the sitter. For instance, you might think you're sticking to only reading for the sitter if the questions is, "How may I do a better job at work?" In this case you're actually saying what they can do better that would be noticed and appreciated by fellow workers and the boss, so therefore, you've not only included the opinion of a third party---which means getting inside the boss's head. What will the boss consider "better" to be? Or you're saying the consensus of fellow workers would be thus and so, which is "reading" the minds of co-workers.

None of us live in a vacuum. None. So any time you read on anything at all, you're going to be also picking up things from people involved in your sitter's life. I can think of almost no questions a sitter could ask that would not bring in at least one little scrap from someone else.
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I bolded that last sentence because it's exactly what I was thinking.

If a reader wants to stand on ethics and not do readings that involve outside parties, they have the right. But they'd be extremely limited in what they'd be able to discuss.
 

JackofWands

Regardless of the accuracy of such readings (or the ability of the Tarot to provide specific information about other people's actions or motivations), I would say that attempting to perform a reading about someone without their consent is, at the very least, impolite.

Moving from that, performing a reading about someone without their consent and then sharing that reading with a third party is meddlesome. I personally haven't found cause to believe that a third-party reading like this can provide any kind of specific information, but I don't think that changes anything. A reader who does this is claiming to provide information about person A to person B, without person A's permission to do so.

Is this a criminal offense? Certainly not. And I understand that both the reader and person B can have the best of intentions. But even so, regarding the reader's behavior towards person A, I don't think there's any way that the adjectives "impolite" and "meddlesome" wouldn't apply.

If person A got a Tarot reading, and then person B subsequently came to the same reader and asked about person A, it would be inappropriate of the reader to share the content of her reading for person A. In my view of things, performing a reading about person A on behalf of person B is a similar breach of etiquette, but with added impoliteness: not only is the reader sharing a reading about A without A's consent, but she is now going so far as to perform the reading without consent.

The terms "spying" and "prying" that get thrown around in discussions like this are, of course, too severe. But I do think that readings of this nature are inappropriate and, to a certain extent, disrespectful towards the person whose affairs are being discussed.
 

dancing_moon

For my personal ease, I distinguish between second-party questions (questions involving the querent in some way; e.g. 'what does the person X think about me?' or 'what is Y going to do about our relationship?') and 'true' third-party questions (not connected to the querent in any way; e.g. 'what is the nature of the relationship between X and Y?' or 'How's X's business going?').

Personally, I find 'true' third-party questions intrusive, impolite, and all of the other above-mentioned negative descriptors. While not the same as installing a CCTV camera, it's quite akin to gossip and is very much prying.

As for second-party questions, I find them more useless and lazy rather than truly prying. Personally, I wouldn't mind anyone reading on my feelings, thoughts, or intentions about them, partly because they're no secret, partly because it won't hold up in the court. })

However, I find that, more often than not, those questions are associated with what I call 'a lazy lover's thinking' and, sadly, they often boil down to 'if this relationship is worth my time and effort to pursue'. Sure, it takes a lot of courage to approach another person and offer yourself, a lot of effort to build and maintain a relationship, and there's always a risk of rejection, break-up, and broken heart. But this is all part of everyone's personal growth, and aiming only at 'easy' relationships with a 'satisfaction guarantee' is, IMHO, really counter-productive in the long run. So, they're not so much unethical but rather useless.
 

Sulis

dancing_moon said:
For my personal ease, I distinguish between second-party questions (questions involving the querent in some way; e.g. 'what does the person X think about me?' or 'what is Y going to do about our relationship?') and 'true' third-party questions (not connected to the querent in any way; e.g. 'what is the nature of the relationship between X and Y?' or 'How's X's business going?').

Personally, I find 'true' third-party questions intrusive, impolite, and all of the other above-mentioned negative descriptors. While not the same as installing a CCTV camera, it's quite akin to gossip and is very much prying.

As for second-party questions, I find them more useless and lazy rather than truly prying. Personally, I wouldn't mind anyone reading on my feelings, thoughts, or intentions about them, partly because they're no secret, partly because it won't hold up in the court. })

However, I find that, more often than not, those questions are associated with what I call 'a lazy lover's thinking' and, sadly, they often boil down to 'if this relationship is worth my time and effort to pursue'. Sure, it takes a lot of courage to approach another person and offer yourself, a lot of effort to build and maintain a relationship, and there's always a risk of rejection, break-up, and broken heart. But this is all part of everyone's personal growth, and aiming only at 'easy' relationships with a 'satisfaction guarantee' is, IMHO, really counter-productive in the long run. So, they're not so much unethical but rather useless.
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Exactly this.

If someone asks about an ex's relationship with their new partner or whether their neighbour gets on with his wife then that's intrusive and is none of their business (unless they want to go and ask those people outright)..

If someone wants to know what someone else thinks of them, I can see the merit in knowing and I can also see why they'd want to know but I think it's much more useful to keep yourself or your querant as the focus of your question because you're the only one you have control over, you're the only one you can change so I think you'll actually get an answer you can do something with if you take a few minutes to formulate your question so that it focuses on you, on your own actions and your own feelings.

I also don't really think that tarot is that good at reading someone else's mind, especially if the querant doesn't have very strong connection to the person they're asking about in the first place and then there's also the fact that by asking what someone thinks or feels about you, you're assuming that they do think of you and they do have some sort of feelings for you when in reality, they may not.
 
Tarot ethics and readings about others without their consent Tarot decks for career-oriented readings?