Is This Legal?

Russia among other countries is getting a reputation of being beyond the rules, so probably its a lost cause, at least in terms of trying to stop individuals or small outfits. But when they attempt to promote their stolen loot on the e bays and other more public sites of the internet, maybe that at least can be addressed, as those sites represent a main way of advertising the product. I believe previous cases have indicated that e-bay are liable if they knowingly allow their site to be used for selling illegal material???

...another member and I were talking about this situation...and we were thinking:

this guy is only selling tarot software and not the decks reproduced or any
prints, etc...only the software...

...We were thinking, that he might be actually "promoting" those decks
because when people buy the software and are attracted to one of those
(or more) decks...they might just go out and buy the actual physical deck.

...it is just a possibility...

I do think he should have contacted the deck authors and got their permission
to use their digital images in his software, as it might be used for promotion of their decks.

Just another way to look at it...

You only have to look at his reactions to criticism to see that he knew exactly what he was doing.

And no - I don't think it will promote anything. The sites that could be said to do that are the ones that just show decks and make it much too much like hard work to download them ! Either way - copyright rules are there to protect and should be more easily enforceable.

I agree. Sites like taroteca, though in flagrant violation of CR (someone already brought this up) aren't really making money off of posting low-resolution scans of decks like this one is. This person is clearly a sheister and is attempting to make money, pure and simple.

Kilted Kat said:

I agree. Sites like taroteca, though in flagrant violation of CR (someone already brought this up) aren't really making money off of posting low-resolution scans of decks like this one is. This person is clearly a sheister and is attempting to make money, pure and simple.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately taroteca sells prints, cards etc of other people's artwork. So in fact they are in copyright violation AND taking business away from the original artists. Plus I assume that the goods sold are poor quality (you can't just scan an image, shove it through a print service and expect it to come out well - it'll look a mess) which can damage artists' reputations.

cirom said:

Russia among other countries is getting a reputation of being beyond the rules, so probably its a lost cause, at least in terms of trying to stop individuals or small outfits. But when they attempt to promote their stolen loot on the e bays and other more public sites of the internet, maybe that at least can be addressed, as those sites represent a main way of advertising the product. I believe previous cases have indicated that e-bay are liable if they knowingly allow their site to be used for selling illegal material???

Click to expand...

I don't want to say too much in public Ciro, but in fact you might be pleasantly surprised. We know one person in Russia who has reported Russian copyright violations in tarot and has been quite active in this. I agree that it's a hard region in which to take action, but there is a growing awareness among some Russians of how important intellectual property rights are.

Oh I'm in agreement, I have had several positive transactions with Russia and publishing. My comment was really directed at the use of some countries for internet activities. Using them as bases from which to operate questionable business such as mass mailing of junk mail and the like, with relative freedom from legal recourse.

This was relevant in this particular case as that is exactly what the guy behind this product said he would do when he responded to my e-mails.... namely, move his server to Russia, where he indicated he could pretty much do what he wished.

As for other suggestions that these kind of products may actually help promote a deck. I agree to a point (but I also think the artist should have a say in the decision), and in fact suggested to this guy that there might well be many artists who would be willing to have their decks included on such a product. (especially if they had been turned down by a major publisher). So he should contact them and make a proposal that would benefit both parties.

In an ideal world that would be a win-win situation.

I think we achieved some progress this time around but I don't think we have completely resolved the situation or will ever be able to do so. Ultimately it depends on the morality and resources of the individuals involved.
It will probably get worse, and become a serious dilemma for creative people all round. Especially those who are more vulnerable, i.e. less known or early in their careers, who need the exposure, and so will also incur the risks.
But the awareness of the problem and response to it as demonstrated on this thread, at least might be able to limit the more extreme cases, especially as I mentioned in a previous post, when the products are being advertised through more mainstream sites such as e-bay.

...have any of you actually downloaded any of these decks from his site?

If you did, as I just did one deck, you will find that you cannot even open
the image files... he has made the images to ONLY work WITHIN his software...

and yes, I unzipped the deck images, and tried to open them... you can't.

I download his trial software, and I was able to put the deck images into
his trial software and then was able to see the deck images (only within his software)...

...just so you know...

...and I did mention (in my previous post) that I thought he should contact
the authors "before" including their decks for his software.

Actually I received an e-mail from this guy about an hour ago. I get the impression he is trying to comply. He is also trying to join Aeclectic, which I think is a good thing. I believe he had some problems trying to join, but if he does I recommend we welcome him.
While I did'nt like the things as I first interpreted them, I do sense there was some genuine misunderstanding of what the product was, and how exactly the images were being used.
Maybe its still not fully kosher, but as Tarotlyn's last post clarified, its not quite as clear cut wrong as I initially assumed either.

ETA: made changes in my wording...because I have changed my thinking
about this Visual software...they are rip offs because they changed their
price from $35 to $250 usa dollars...overnight!!!