The Behenian Fixed Stars

Rosanne

How common was this list of Behenian Stars? I can imagine that the magic associated was pharmaceutical in the main? Was it an apothecary list? I cannot get my head around the 'why' of these Stars in particular. It looks unbalanced or more a particular time of the year- or yet again the plants first then the stars to correspond. I can see a definite link to the 22 cards- but why? Why? Why?~Rosanne
 

kwaw

Rosanne said:
I cannot get my head around the 'why' of these Stars in particular. It looks unbalanced or more a particular time of the year-

Snap - I was just thinking if there is a Sun/Algol connection then a particular time of year, the Heliacal [achronical] setting of Algol occurs when the Sun is around 2deg Gemini c.May 23rd.

SunAlgol.jpg


Kwaw
 

Rosanne

So these 22 cards are an astronomical clock- like the one on the Prague Town Hall? Why would this be important as an image- Algol and Gemini? What is it indicating- Gemini or Argol or that time of year in May? Pick the Herb?
Thank you for the 'snap' That makes that card balanced and somewhat understandable. ~Rosanne
 

Satori

Well, around here you don't plant the garden until right about now. In fact the earlier in May you plant the harder it is to keep the plants going just in case you get a late frost or too much rain. Third weekend in May is about right for planting, so could be that some sort of alignment was necessary for the best most auspicious planting window????

Also, if you plant seeds you can plant a bit earlier, we just put in about 25 rows of small plants we started indoors. So not sure if the ancients started plants or not....but if they planted seeds in early May then right around the time kwaw states they'd be getting seedlings.

Root vegetables can go in earlier...you'd have to look at the tables of how long different plants take to go from seed to germination. More temperate climates would be able to plant year round, but the crops would be different.

Herbs are different, as are lettuces. Come spring the sage is still leafy, even after a hard winter. Oregano is also hardier, but tarragon is fragile and needs replanting here after a cold winter. Rosemary too, likes to come in and keep company in the house for the winter. She is nosy as well. Since it is said rosemary won't grow in a home where the woman is thwarted she likes to come in and see if the woman has a good strong place in the family! Chives come right up in spring as does thyme. Savory is also going strong.

This is probably not helpful...but I'm trying to help the cause!
 

Scion

My internet has been down for the past 24 hours... and I've been working on a big data collation thing that I'll try to post here tomorrow. But I stumbled across something critical I want to share.

After rooting around in primary texts all yesterday, I seem to have stumbled acrosss something critical: Polaris is NOT a Behenian star. Alkaid (Ursa Minor Alpha) is the star, according to the Hermetis, Agrippa, etc. Polaris (Ursa Major Alpha) seems to have been misattributed by Robson and it stuck, turning up on Wikipedia and other common internet sites without being properly checked... then repeated in the way of all misinformation on the net. I'm still checking but I haven't been able to get online for the past day so more data to follow. Just wanted to throw this into the mix. What would the shift to Alkaid do to our climbing beehive dome?

Kwaw, that Heliacal chart is fantastic and thought-provoking. My next question of course is does the same heliacal lineup occur for the other cards in a meaningful pattern?

As for your "why of the stars" question Rosanne, Behenian seems to have been used to mean "Arabic" in a slangy way. In the same way people used to refer to Muslim as Mohammedan or Saracen. The 15 Behenian stars come from the Greeks via the Arabs. But these 15 are designated as somehow significantly powerful as magical bodies. The centrality of the Hermetis and Agrippa figured them as important by the mid 14th century... just in time for those trumps to get cooking. I'm still working my way through a PILE of academic articles from JSTOR on the topic, so maybe I'll have a better answer for your excellent questionshortly.

Re: Corvi=Devil & Algol/Sun... I'm still vexed by this one. I just can't figure out why Algol, known universally as the most "evil" of the fixed stars and named variously as the Ghoul, the Demon's Head and the Head of the Devil wouldn't be Trump 15... but again, that may just be too damn literal. And if it IS 15, what are the other attributions. I want to collate all this data and see if a preliminary order presents itself, even skeletally...

WHat I most want is a categoric speculative pattern. EVen if its a big mess and we can all shred it and revise. I know it will be speculation, but I'm hoping for a pattern (or patterns) to image that is meaningful, even if it isn't provable. It's the possible pattern that intrigues me, more than the one offs. Having said that I know the one-offs are the starting point. Which is why the Algol is so attractive, because it initially seems suvh an easy match: demon/devil... The more fool !. :D

This is making my head churn in a wonderful way! Off to dinner, will try to post properly tomorrow.

Scion
 

le pendu

throwing two cents in, carelessly, I wound not pay much attention to the numbers/order of trumps, but rather, can you simply match trumps in any order?
 

kwaw

Scion said:
After rooting around in primary texts all yesterday, I seem to have stumbled acrosss something critical: Polaris is NOT a Behenian star. Alkaid (Ursa Minor Alpha) is the star, according to the Hermetis, Agrippa, etc. Polaris (Ursa Major Alpha) seems to have been misattributed by Robson and it stuck, turning up on Wikipedia and other common internet sites without being properly checked... then repeated in the way of all misinformation on the net.

Thanks for checking Scion, I sure miss not having JSTOR access, any information you can share will be great. I am still confused about which star it is, Agrippa says:

Under the tail of Vrsa Major [Ursa Major] they made the image of a pensive Man, or of a Bull, or the Figure of a Calf; it availeth against incantations, and maketh him who carrieth it secure in his travels:

Your primary sources say it is Alkaid (which I have as eta Ursa Majoris, not Ursa Minor Alpha). I am wondering if it should be Epsilon Ursa Majoris because Gower lists the name of one of the 15 stars as Alhaiot which is very similar to one of the names for Epsilon Ursa Majoris Alhioth? Or are there variations of the list of 15 in the primary sources.

I don't think it is present on the Hebrew astrolabe, the star pointer to the lower right of polaris, inside the ecliptic above regulus, is called RGL HDVB foot of the bear.

Kwaw, that Heliacal chart is fantastic and thought-provoking. My next question of course is does the same heliacal lineup occur for the other cards in a meaningful pattern?

I doubt it as probably not all the behenians have heliacal risings or settings [as some may remain above the horizon in the northern hemishere all year].

Re: Corvi=Devil & Algol/Sun... I'm still vexed by this one. I just can't figure out why Algol, known universally as the most "evil" of the fixed stars and named variously as the Ghoul, the Demon's Head and the Head of the Devil wouldn't be Trump 15... but again, that may just be too damn literal. And if it IS 15, what are the other attributions. I want to collate all this data and see if a preliminary order presents itself, even skeletally...

I agree Devil is a good and obvious and possibly the best fit - in exploring other options such as death or sun I am not meaning to exclude any other at this point.

Kwaw
 

kwaw

kwaw said:
Thanks for checking Scion, I sure miss not having JSTOR access, any information you can share will be great. I am still confused about which star it is, Agrippa says:

Under the tail of Vrsa Major [Ursa Major] they made the image of a pensive Man, or of a Bull, or the Figure of a Calf; it availeth against incantations, and maketh him who carrieth it secure in his travels:

Your primary sources say it is Alkaid (which I have as eta Ursa Majoris, not Ursa Minor Alpha). I am wondering if it should be Epsilon Ursa Majoris because Gower lists the name of one of the 15 stars as Alhaiot which is very similar to one of the names for Epsilon Ursa Majoris Alhioth? Or are there variations of the list of 15 in the primary sources.

Aha... Agrippa also states:

the tail of the greater Bear is in the nineteenth degree of Virgo...

In 1900 Alkaid was at 25Vir31; guestimating a deduction of around 5-6 degrees to go back to Agrippas time would take us to around the 19th degree of Virgo.

Alkaid - Al-Qa'id - "Leader" of the mourning maidens

It means leader, is connected the spanish for commander of the fortress and connected with lightening and storms according to this site:

http://users.winshop.com.au/annew/Alkaid.html

Kwaw
 

Scion

Kwaw, that's it! Here's what I've found:

Alkaid

Alkaid or Benetnasch from al-Qāid al-Banāt an-Nac meaning "The leader of the of the mourning maidens or “Governer of the daughters of the bier". The daughters/maidens, are the three stars of the handle of the Big Dipper, Alkaid, Mizar, and Alioth. Under the tail of Ursa Major they made the image of a pensive Man, or of a Bull, or the Figure of a Calf; it availeth against incantations, and maketh him who carrieth it secure in his travels.

Looks down on the Fall of princes & overthrow of empires (Agrippa) Alkaid was known as "the destroyer of nations" by Islamic astrologers. (Noonan). These mourners, the children of Al Na'ash, who was murdered by Al Jadi, the pole-star (Polaris)

In accordance with adopted belief of ancient times, this fixed star is supposed to be bound up with the realm of the dead and is therefore associated with death and mourning. In an important position in a mundane map, Benetnash will claim human lives in calamities such as mine accidents, collapse of houses and bridges, mountain slides, earth tremors and catastrophes caused by weather

Could that sound more like Trump XIII?

Scion

PS: my 2000th post! How did that happen?
 

kwaw

Scion said:
Kwaw, that's it! Here's what I've found:

Alkaid

Alkaid or Benetnasch from al-Qāid al-Banāt an-Nac meaning "The leader of the of the mourning maidens or “Governer of the daughters of the bier". The daughters/maidens, are the three stars of the handle of the Big Dipper, Alkaid, Mizar, and Alioth. Under the tail of Ursa Major they made the image of a pensive Man, or of a Bull, or the Figure of a Calf; it availeth against incantations, and maketh him who carrieth it secure in his travels.

Looks down on the Fall of princes & overthrow of empires (Agrippa) Alkaid was known as "the destroyer of nations" by Islamic astrologers. (Noonan). These mourners, the children of Al Na'ash, who was murdered by Al Jadi, the pole-star (Polaris)

In accordance with adopted belief of ancient times, this fixed star is supposed to be bound up with the realm of the dead and is therefore associated with death and mourning. In an important position in a mundane map, Benetnash will claim human lives in calamities such as mine accidents, collapse of houses and bridges, mountain slides, earth tremors and catastrophes caused by weather

Could that sound more like Trump XIII?

I was thinking XVI, but XIII would fit too...

Congrats on your 2000th post!

Kwaw