About the OOTK and

Nholdamek

Hi,

In the Book of Thoth, describing the OOTK, it has many strict rules that could potentially just end the divination, because, according to the book, that question wasn't meant to be answered right now I guess? For example, in the first operation, if the significator isn't in the appropriate deck according to the question asked, you should stop there.

Does anyone actually follow this? Besides just dismissing it outright, I am curious why Crowley said to just give up at a point such as this.

I've been using this spread, and a few times the significator did not end up in the correct pile, but to me it represented that the querent is focusing too much on a certain aspect that does not have to do with the question at hand, and so these issues must be taken care of first. so i just go on with the reading and say that these issues must be handled before the situation asked about can be dealt with or accepted.

For example, I once was asked to do a reading about love, and found the significator in the earth pile. The cards here pointed out that the querent desired success but didn't have the motivation or drive to go out and do something (i.e., get a job, which ended up to be correct). I said in the end that the querent couldn't really do anything in terms of relationships until these issues were handled first.

Just curious what people think about this, though. I don't want to just dismiss that "rule" without knowing why it was written, for there must have been a reason.
 

thinbuddha

I don't think you'll find a lot of people here that use this spread very often. I doubt even more if anyone follows those rules slavishly. The few times I've used the spread (well - a variation of the spread) I didn't use a significator at all.
 

Nholdamek

thinbuddha said:
I don't think you'll find a lot of people here that use this spread very often. I doubt even more if anyone follows those rules slavishly. The few times I've used the spread (well - a variation of the spread) I didn't use a significator at all.
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Hi,

Really? I find it to be my favorite spread. It is so intuitive to me and gives me the most information, combining card counting, pairing, elemental dignities, and astrological significance. I followed everything mentioned in the Book of Thoth, for the first operation, except for stopping if the significator wasn't found in the proper pile.

I think I've seen some posts of people saying they use the spread, so hopefully some of them see this.

again, i don't want an answer saying "Oh, no one follows this, just forget about it." I want to know why he wrote about stopping at this point and I'll make my own decision.
 

Moonbow

Moderator Note

Hello Nholdamek,

I'm moving this thread to the Thoth forum as I know there have been discussions about this there. You may like to do a search in that forum.

Welcome to Aeclectic too!

Moonbow*
 

Nholdamek

Hi,

Thanks for moving the thread. I did do a little searching but unfortunately couldn't really find anything regarding it. I think I read something once before but someone just said no one really follows that rule.

It's my nature to question things and wonder exactly why certain things are the way they are, so that answer isn't sufficient for me. :)
 

Nholdamek

thinbuddha said:
If you haven't come across these threads before, I think you'll find them interesting. I doubt if your specific question is answered in any of them, but there is a lot of good info....


http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=58926&highlight=opening+key

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=46027&highlight=opening+key

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=17651&highlight=opening+key

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=43253&highlight=key+spread
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Thanks for the links. Read most of those before, but just read the others as well. Very interesting, but nothing about this specific point. :(
 

mooiedragon

just a random thought

Nholdamek said:
In the Book of Thoth, describing the OOTK, it has many strict rules that could potentially just end the divination, because, according to the book, that question wasn't meant to be answered right now I guess? For example, in the first operation, if the significator isn't in the appropriate deck according to the question asked, you should stop there.
Click to expand...

I think you answered the question yourself - because he felt that it meant the question wasn't to be answered right now. It could be because despite the fact that Crowley was somewhat of a "rebel" or liberal thinker at the very least, he held to a "higher" belief that some things are not meant to be known at certain times. I feel like he thought divination was kind of a sacred thing, but for it to truly work you needed to have all the elements there, and one of those elements is simply clear communication between seeker, reader and the cards. If you don't have that, there's no point in moving forward. Why he felt that way, I really can't say. I'm not sure if anybody but Mr. Crowley himself could answer that question for you.
 

Nholdamek

mooiedragon said:
I think you answered the question yourself - because he felt that it meant the question wasn't to be answered right now. It could be because despite the fact that Crowley was somewhat of a "rebel" or liberal thinker at the very least, he held to a "higher" belief that some things are not meant to be known at certain times. I feel like he thought divination was kind of a sacred thing, but for it to truly work you needed to have all the elementsthere, and one of those elements is simply clear communication between seeker, reader and the cards. If you don't have that, there's no point in moving forward. Why he felt that way, I really can't say. I'm not sure if anybody but Mr. Crowley himself could answer that question for you.
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True, but you did put some light on the issue, so thanks for that.

I do wonder if he believed it could be attempted at a later date, though.

I think perhaps when it happens I could read it as, there's an issue blocking the querent from that which he/she is asking about right now, but that I could give information about that by continuing.
 

thinbuddha

Nholdamek said:
I do wonder if he believed it could be attempted at a later date, though.
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I don't remember exactly that passage in the BoT, however I seem to remember feeling that you could return to the question at another time. I even think I remember that it wasn't so much that the question shouldn't be addressed so much as the particular reading was flawed which leads me to believe that there would be nothing wrong with doing the same reading over and over until you got the sig showing up in the correct pile.
 
the universe card and the hidden tree of life A very quick question for Crowley people