Italian decks

sapienza

Alan Ross said:
Speaking of different animals, I would be interested in hearing about anyone's experience reading with the Vacchetta. Has anyone tried reading with it using the keywords included with the LS version (Tarot of the Master)?

I LOVE the Vacchetta deck

I only have the LS version and I have not trimmed off the borders, but I don't really take a lot of notice of the keywords. I'm normally not a fan of borders or keywords but for some reason they don't bother me with this deck. Sometimes a keyword will 'jump' out at me in a reading but otherwise I just ignore them. I'd be interested in who chose the keywords and what they were based on.

I find the deck reads very well. For me, it was my stepping stone to the Ancient Italian, kind of half way between scenic pips and non-scenic pips. I find it a great deck to use intuitively, but I have also spent a fair bit of time with it developing a personal system I guess. It's interesting how many of the cards have similar meanings to the RWS images though. I've never used the RWS as a reading deck mind you, but in many cards there are certainly connections. I find it overall a very positive deck. The Seven of Batons in this deck is my absolute favourite. It really is similar in meaning to the RWS but in a far more positive way. I love that the banner under the batons says "born from a single tree but with different destinies". How beautiful. I also love the 9 of Batons which to me is all about following your bliss in this deck. I tend to go on suits and numbers to derive my meanings and I feel like this deck works well in that way.

I'd love to know a lot more about the history of this deck, what it was intended for, and if it was for divination, what the depictions were based on. It's a great deck for those who love historical decks but want a little bit more to work with for intuitive readings. Imagine if this deck had become the 'standard' instead of the RWS.....how different things may have been.

ihcoyc

sapienza said:
I'd love to know a lot more about the history of this deck, what it was intended for, and if it was for divination, what the depictions were based on.

The one thing that stands out in the Vacchetta deck is the use of classical themes. I have the Lo Scarabeo version, seldom try to read with it, but sometimes look at it for a fresh perspective.

The Moon and the Sun have specifically been turned into Diana and Apollo. Roman emperor names are all through the Coins. The ten of Batons, depicting an organ, has a Latin inscription, Dulce auditum, "sweet to hear".

Biblical figures? The only one I really recognize is the Queen of Swords, who definitely seems to be Judith, carrying the head of Holofernes in her sack. Strictly speaking, she's not a Biblical figure. My guess would be that the King of Cups is Bacchus.

Of all the Italian decks I own, this one goes the furthest in shouting out, "I'm Italian".

Moonbow

I read with the Vacchetta too, but not often, and I use it in a similar way that I use a Marseilles deck but this one has little snippets of images which can sometimes bring out new things to say, The 'Amore' card is one of my favourite Lovers cards, with its blindfolded cupid stood on the world, a pair of doves close by and the plinth that cupid is stood on is decorated with lovers knots. Somewhere in the archives there is a reading I have done with this deck. Its does scream 'Italian', as Ihcoyc says, and its a wonderful deck to read with, bringing out a lot of imagination.

Vacchetta drew on his own art background and interest to produce the deck so its likely the depictions are from his own collection. I suspect the keywords are from Lo Scarabeo and I don't use them. I read them sometimes but mostly they don't convey what I see in the card. I only have the Lo Scarabeo deck and I like the green borders!

Alan Ross

Moonbow* said:
I suspect the keywords are from Lo Scarabeo and I don't use them.

I have that same impression. I really wish they hadn't been added to the deck.

Moonbow* said:
I only have the Lo Scarabeo deck and I like the green borders!

I have to say that the green borders color coordinate well with the colors LS used in the illustrations. If only they were thinner! I also have to say that I prefer Lo Scarabeo's colorization to Il Meneghello's. I actually like both, but the subtle hues used in the Tarot of the Master just seem to suit the images a little better.

Now I'm having second thoughts about my earlier rejection of the Tarot of the Master as a regular reading deck. I really do love the highly evocative imagery. Maybe I can live with those oversized borders. I think I'll spend some time alternating the Tarot of the Master with the Ancient Italian and see how they each read for me.

Alan

Bernice

sapienza:The Seven of Batons in this deck is my absolute favourite. It really is similar in meaning to the RWS but in a far more positive way. I love that the banner under the batons says "born from a single tree but with different destinies". How beautiful.

Thank you for this translation sapienza, makes such a difference when you know what the text means. Yes, beautiful.

Looking at just the images, I originally thought that the whole deck was primarily related to art, artists, the classical 'hippies' of that time. In fact I still have that impression of the deck.

Bee

sapienza

Yes, I agree, the Vacchetta does feel like quite an 'arty' deck.

Moonbow

Alan, I am doing a similar exercise to you but with the Soprafino, Liguria-Piedmont, and Bologna for studying and comparison, and some readings with the Vacchetta. Its a very readable deck and makes a change from reading with the Marseilles families for me.

The Lombardy on the other hand, is not a readable deck for me, I find it cold and uninspiring. The people cards are expressionless and snapshot-like as though they are posing. I like to peruse it occasionally and I still wonder about the rear view of the Cavalieres. I don't hear of anyone else reading with this deck and its rarely mentioned.

kwaw

ihcoyc said:
Biblical figures? The only one I really recognize is the Queen of Swords, who definitely seems to be Judith, carrying the head of Holofernes in her sack.

Without doubt she is the biblical figure of Judith

Judith 13: 18 - 19
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18 And Uzziah said to her, "O daughter, you are blessed by the Most High God above all women on earth; and blessed be the Lord God, who created the heavens and the earth, who has guided you to strike the head of the leader of our enemies.
19 Your hope will never depart from the hearts of men, as they remember the power of God.

and I think the Queen of Batons shepherdess is Rachel:

Genesi 29:9
"While he was still speaking to them, Rachel came with her father's sheep, for she was a shepherdess."

Judith and Rachel also appear among the French (Rouen and Parisian) court designs:

quote:
"Rouen courts are traditionally named as follows: the kings of spades, hearts, diamonds, and clubs are David, Alexander, Caesar, and Charles (Charlemagne), respectively. The knaves (or "jacks"; French "valet") are Hector (prince of Troy), Le Hire (comrade-in-arms to Joan of Arc), Ogier (a knight of Charlemagne), and Judas Maccabeus (who led the Jewish rebellion against the Syrians). The queens are Pallas (warrior goddess; equivalent to the Greek Athena or Roman Minerva), Rachel (biblical mother of Joseph), Argine (the origin of which is obscure), and Judith (from Book of Judith). Parisian tradition uses the same names, but assigns them to different suits: the kings of spades, hearts, diamonds, and clubs are David, Charles, Caesar, and Alexander; the queens are Pallas, Judith, Rachel, and Argine; the knaves are Ogier, Le Hire, Hector, and Judas Maccabee."

The King of Batons, holding the Hand of Justice sceptre that the King of Cups keeps in his wine jug, looks a little drunk to me too!? The drunken king we may see as gluttony or folly perhaps, and the Queens as generosity? In the coins too there is perhaps a dichotomy between the kings vice and queens virtue, forgery v. craft? Theft or usury v. labour?

ihcoyc

Moonbow* said:
The Lombardy on the other hand, is not a readable deck for me, I find it cold and uninspiring. The people cards are expressionless and snapshot-like as though they are posing. I like to peruse it occasionally and I still wonder about the rear view of the Cavalieres. I don't hear of anyone else reading with this deck and its rarely mentioned.

I read with that deck fairly often, but I have to be in the right mood. It is a very quiet and understated deck, to me. It also offers full reversibility on every card, which is worthwhile when a clear yes or no answer is needed.

kwaw

sapienza said:
The Seven of Batons in this deck is my absolute favourite. It really is similar in meaning to the RWS but in a far more positive way. I love that the banner under the batons says "born from a single tree but with different destinies".

ihcoyc said:
The ten of Batons, depicting an organ, has a Latin inscription, Dulce auditum, "sweet to hear".

Thanks for the translations sapienza and ihcoyc. As well as ‘Amor’ on the cupid card Moonbow mentions for the sake of completion we may note other inscriptions read:

On the world card
Spring – Primavera - Eagle
Summer - Estate - Lion
Autumn - Autunno - Bull
Winter – Inverno – Angel / Man
I like how the foliage blooms and fruits change around the wreath the indicate the seasons.

Guerra porto (war port?) amor pace (love peace) on the ace of swords
Valor on the two of swords
Ad gloriam dei (for the glory of God) on the Five Cups (with the R of Gloriam inscribed within the O and the e of dei within the D).

Italian decks

sapienza

ihcoyc

Moonbow

Alan Ross

Bernice

sapienza

Moonbow

kwaw

ihcoyc

kwaw